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North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

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Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#61

Post by tdeck »

avereveard wrote: post #60
tdeck wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add a little context to this comment, the world's foremost nuclear power (the USA) runs live-fire exercises every year where its army practices invading North Korea. Under these circumstances, it's entirely rational for the NK government to develop nuclear weapons. If the US government really wanted to stop this, it could offer a good faith deal for disarmament involving some kind of reduction of sanctions or…

Apparently only certain kind of states feel threatened. I wonder what the common thread is between them Oh right, it's the dictatorial megalomaniacs that spew anti western rethoric as distraction for their masses, that who. Truly evil, these USA are.

By this logic Saudi Arabia should feel threatened. But Saudi Arabia is a US client state so it doesn't need to worry.

Also, you completely ignored the part about the US practicing invading the country every year. Apparently that doesn't constitute a threat?

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#62

Post by yongjik »

tdeck wrote: post #44
vkou wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acquiring and developing nuclear weapons seems to be the most rational thing North Korea has done in a very long time. Neither the Iraq nor Ukraine conflicts would have happened if they were nuclear states. An armed society is a polite society, or so I've been told many, many times.

Just to add a little context to this comment, the world's foremost nuclear power (the USA) runs live-fire exercises every year where its army practices invading North Korea. Under these circumstances, it's entirely rational for the NK government to develop nuclear weapons. If the US government really wanted to stop this, it could offer a good faith deal for disarmament involving some kind of reduction of sanctions or…

> live-fire exercises every year where its army practices invading North Korea

It's "practicing invading North Korea" in the same sense North Korea's missile tests are "practicing dropping nukes on America." It's a war practice, all options are on the table, with the hope that they won't be necessary.

South Korea and the US had canceled the yearly joint exercise in 2019, hoping for a better relation with North Korea. It didn't work out - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_missile_t...

The exercise resumed in 2022.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#63

Post by avereveard »

tdeck wrote: post #61
avereveard wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently only certain kind of states feel threatened. I wonder what the common thread is between them Oh right, it's the dictatorial megalomaniacs that spew anti western rethoric as distraction for their masses, that who. Truly evil, these USA are.

By this logic Saudi Arabia should feel threatened. But Saudi Arabia is a US client state so it doesn't need to worry. Also, you completely ignored the part about the US practicing invading the country every year. Apparently that doesn't constitute a threat?

Eh out of the schoolyard we're past "he whom hasn't fault may throw the first stone"

And I don't coun't that many bullshit wars. The second invasion of Iraq, maybe Afghanistan. Lybia was, but it was France's bullshit war.

Besides Usa has many allies and responsabilities, it's not that strange having them involved in many conflicts.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#64

Post by IAmGraydon »

hamandcheese wrote: post #35
dontbenebby wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they’ve detonated >50kt nukes Are you sure? Didn't they also detonate a buncha TNT to make it look like a nuke blast once? (A weird thing to lie about.)

> A weird thing to lie about. Having the world believe you have nukes is nearly as valuable as actually having them.

I believe that’s his point.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#65

Post by laurencerowe »

gregfjohnson wrote: post #59

What I wonder about is all of the technologies that go into ICBM's with nuclear weapons. My layman's guess is that there is active support and collaboration of the NK nuclear program from outside. North Korea is a headache for the US and other western powers, one more thing to consume policy bandwidth and military preparedness. This would seem to be in the interests of China and Russia, and perhaps others. I don't wo…

While Russia and China don’t want to see North Korea collapse as existing nuclear powers they don’t especially want to see other countries acquire nuclear weapons.

Active support and collaboration came from Pakistan, Iran and Libya who were all trying to develop nuclear weapons of their own.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentar...

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#66

Post by NikkiA »

kortilla wrote: post #57
NikkiA wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've put stuff in orbit before, so I'd wager they could hit the continental US, but probably without any accuracy beyond maybe picking a state.

They haven’t gotten anything to orbit with the weight of an atomic bomb with the proper shielding to handle re-entry.

Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4 was apparently 200Kg, which is actually just about enough.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#67

Post by EmilioMartinez »

Xylakant wrote: post #4
dontbenebby wrote: post #2

>Missiles make ionospheric disturbances that GPS records. The yellow ripple is the ionospheric disturbance. Where can I read more about the meta level concept of "isopheric disturbances"? (Because I suspect I'll find this has been done by military intelligence for a long time then rediscovered by so called "arms control" wonks who insist on putting their code into the public domain.)

If you follow the thread, there’s a link to https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/201... which contains this introduction: ======== It is widely recognized that rocket launches can be an anthropogenic source to trigger traveling ionospheric disturbances (TIDs) by generating acoustic-gravity waves (Afraimovich et al., 2002; Arendt, 1971; Bowling et al., 2013; Calais & Minster, 1996; Chou et al., 201…

What does "gravity waves" mean in this context?

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#68

Post by thot_experiment »

dontbenebby wrote: post #33
Dylan16807 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not feel bad about indirectly aiding them with well-after-the-fact missile trail detection. Why should I? Why should this be difficult to do? It can be called "military" but it doesn't help with offenses and doesn't really help with defenses either.

>well-after-the-fact missile trail detection. Sorry, I missed that bit, I thought this could also be used to detect incoming missiles. I do not want my enemies to be able to detect incoming missiles. Sorry for posting so angrily.

Wild! I don't think I've ever seen someone who thinks restricting tech like this is actually a good idea. I thought that was just like, crazy government people who don't understand technology.

I'd hoped we'd moved past printing the entire code of PGP in a hardback book in an OCR font but I guess y'all still out here.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#69

Post by bmitc »

avereveard wrote: post #58
bmitc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been wondering: is North Korea an example of sanctions not working or having the opposite effect? By sanctioning North Korea to the moon and back, they have no other choice but to bottle up, tighten the hatches, take an authoritarian stance, deal with people willing to do deals under the table, and search for ways to strike back. Since they don't have the capability of building a traditional military force, th…

We tried detente and appeasement various times and at various stages, it usually doesn't work

What is the end game with North Korea though? It seems the only options are:

* It collapses on its own or there's an internal revolution or coup. This would be a mess though because of the whole China, Russia, South Korea claims probably.

* It does something drastic and attacks and then gets invaded. That also seems a mess because now it's China, Russia, South Korea, and the U.S. and maybe Japan, depending on who it attacks.

Re: North Korean ICBM launch detected using GPS

#70

Post by tdeck »

yongjik wrote: post #62
tdeck wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add a little context to this comment, the world's foremost nuclear power (the USA) runs live-fire exercises every year where its army practices invading North Korea. Under these circumstances, it's entirely rational for the NK government to develop nuclear weapons. If the US government really wanted to stop this, it could offer a good faith deal for disarmament involving some kind of reduction of sanctions or…

> live-fire exercises every year where its army practices invading North Korea It's "practicing invading North Korea" in the same sense North Korea's missile tests are "practicing dropping nukes on America." It's a war practice, all options are on the table, with the hope that they won't be necessary. South Korea and the US had canceled the yearly joint exercise in 2019, hoping for a better relation with North Korea.…

> It's "practicing invading North Korea" in the same sense North Korea's missile tests are "practicing dropping nukes on America."

The context here is extremely important. All of this (the invasion exercises, the missile tests, the Korean War) have taken place in the Korean peninsula. None of it has threatened the US homeland in a meaningful way.

In addition, the exercises have been going on since 1997. That's a long time before any missile tests were conducted. If the DPRK (North Korea's name for its state) had been testing nukes from Cuba in 1997 I'd feel differently. But note that even dropping live bombs on other countries is something the US gets to do without starting a war because the US military is so powerful. Very few other countries operate that way and North Korea certainly isn't one of them.

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