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The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

thisismoney.co.uk

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Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#61

Post by layer8 »

Mistletoe wrote: post #34
bambax wrote: post #26

> the £7,695 tiny electric car that has no boot, a 28mph top speed and range of just 46 miles I live in Paris and do everything with an e-bike that also has no boot, no passenger seat, a top speed of ~20mph, a range of ~30 miles... but cost me around €1,200 (since I built it myself). It now has over 7,500 miles. In day trafic it's probably much faster than the Ami, and it can also be put on a train. Couldn't be happi…

What are the death rates for bicyclists vs small cars like this? I recently considered a motorcycle and the death rates were too appalling for me to go through with it. Having a metal cage around you and windows is too vital for me. Edit: I found this. >The motorcycle fatality rate is over 17 times greater, and bicycle fatality rates are nearly 10 times greater than that for automobiles.

The question is how often bikes get into an accident vs. cars, relative to the number of comparable trips made, which is difficult to measure. The above statistics probably only tell you that if you get into an accident that happens to get reported, what is your relative survival rate then. It’s not surprising that bike riders have a lower survival rate when a car is involved. That doesn’t mean that bike riders in general have a lower life expectancy than car drivers.

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#62

Post by masklinn »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #57
bambax wrote: post #26

> the £7,695 tiny electric car that has no boot, a 28mph top speed and range of just 46 miles I live in Paris and do everything with an e-bike that also has no boot, no passenger seat, a top speed of ~20mph, a range of ~30 miles... but cost me around €1,200 (since I built it myself). It now has over 7,500 miles. In day trafic it's probably much faster than the Ami, and it can also be put on a train. Couldn't be happi…

If it’s raining/snowing, or too hot, or too cold, I’d much rather be in an small enclosed car than exposed to the elements on a bike. The Ami has a primitive heater but no air conditioning, but there’s no reason that these limitations are inherent to a vehicle of this size. I imagine an Ami-sized car with creature comforts of a regular vehicle would sell extremely well in cities. Biking is great when the weather is a…

> there’s no reason that these limitations are inherent to a vehicle of this size.

Of course not, but the manufacturer tried to keep the costs down as much as they could. An Ami with A/C for double the price would be a lot less attractive.

Although maybe a reversible heat pump could make the heating kinder on the battery...

> I imagine an Ami-sized car with creature comforts of a regular vehicle would sell extremely well in cities.

Seems rather doubtful, it would still have to provide limited amenities, but the price would shoot way up. And given the range of the car, the amenities are a lot less problematic: you can not use the car for long.

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#63

Post by nayuki »

It's nice to see that the Citroen Ami weighs around 500 kg. In a crash with a person/vehicle/building, it's going to do less damage than a typical sedan weighing ~1500 kg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_veh...

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#64

Post by eduction »

rwmj wrote: post #31
bambax wrote: post #26

> the £7,695 tiny electric car that has no boot, a 28mph top speed and range of just 46 miles I live in Paris and do everything with an e-bike that also has no boot, no passenger seat, a top speed of ~20mph, a range of ~30 miles... but cost me around €1,200 (since I built it myself). It now has over 7,500 miles. In day trafic it's probably much faster than the Ami, and it can also be put on a train. Couldn't be happi…

That's nice, but the roads around here are not safe for bicycles of any sort (think pot-holed winding country lanes with lorries speeding at above the 40 mph limit). Until the government gets serious about lowering and enforcing speed limits and introducing cycling infrastructure, an electric car is necessary.

Makes me feel slightly less backward about still using imperial units in the US that you and the article both use mph (I’d have guessed km/h).

Is it just a speed thing, or is distance always in miles there? Do people use metric for everything else? (I’ve heard Brits quote their weight loss in stones which makes me feel positively progressive)

Update, Wikipedia:

“ Most of government, industry and commerce use metric units, but imperial units are officially used to specify journey distances, vehicle speeds and the sizes of returnable milk containers, beer and cider glasses, and fresh milk is often still sold in multiples of pints, with the metric equivalent also marked. Imperial units are also often used to describe body measurements and vehicle fuel economy. In schools, metric units are taught and used as the norm. ” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Ki...

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#65

Post by frankus »

There’s a (YC?) company called Nimbus working on a similar class of vehicle: https://nimbusev.com/. They’re still pre-series-production IIRC but if they pull it off it’s a similar price point for a much higher performance vehicle.

There’s a lot of overlap with an ebike in terms of use cases but when the it’s cold and/or pouring down rain I’d be much more likely to use something like that than my ebike. Likewise when navigating areas with higher speeds and no bike infrastructure.

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#66

Post by toomuchtodo »

HNDV wrote: post #58
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap EVs aren’t profitable. If you want to make them cheap, supply chains must spin up to drive down costs, not sell lip stick on a pig death traps. This is not Musk specific. Legacy automakers can’t bring cheap EVs to market that compete with Teslas either. They are glorified golf carts because they must be. Cheap out on batteries and motors and your warranty reserves and costs are exorbitant and destroy profitabil…

>(Tesla is building their own lithium refinery in Texas to drive down battery costs; point me to an automaker that is doing the same, they can barely source batteries at the scale they need) With this kind of statement I have to believe you're arguing in bad faith. Even manufacturers that haven't jumped onto the full electric bandwagon like Toyota are ramping up manufacturing, see : https://www.thestreet.com/investin…

It’s great to hear these auto makers are playing catch-up now wrt battery manufacturing capacity compared to when Tesla announced their Gigafactory in 2014. It only took a decade. I’m not being disingenuous, I’m just pointing out poor businesses operations, forecasting, and a lack of will at legacy automakers. Only very recently did Toyota shift their strategy from hydrogen to batteries because Tesla gave them no choice.

Tesla spent the $1B on their superchargers. Why would you let your competitor who are barely trying to deliver EVs freeload on it? Spend your own capital on fast dc chargers (or contribute to Teslas capital costs) if you want to offer your vehicle buyers a premium long distance experience (instead of the sadness that is random CCS chargers with no assurances they’ll work when you arrive). Legacy automakers will continue to have to be dragged to an EV future because of lackluster management and shareholders who can’t get comfortable with the cannibalization and transformation combustion vehicle manufacturing will have to go through to come out as EV makers on the other side.

High level, don’t slow down when you’re winning and don’t help your competitors. Drive them into the sea. “Innovator’s Dilemma” and all that jazz. Europe is a microcosm in the world where public transportation is likely a better option than EVs to your point (due to preindustrial revolution land use and urban planning). The rest of the world needs quality long range electric mobility.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/g...

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/exclus...

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#68

Post by Robotbeat »

masklinn wrote: post #46
highwaylights wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably cost close to that range just for the battery, but it begs the question who this is for. If your budget is £7k there are plenty of used options around that would involve sacrificing much less than this for about double the range (thinking early Leaf/Zoe/Ion). It’s neat, but it reminds me of the Twizy. Just too many compromises to still make sense.

So far it seems to be very popular as an alternative to buying a scooter for the kid, for parents with enough income. Especially with the £100/month plan. The nimbleness and ease of charge (the thing comes with what's essentially a hoover charging cord) make it rather convenient for city dwellers or close suburbanites. It's also much cheaper than license-free cars (Aixam, Chatenet, Ligier).

I think a lot of people who don’t have electric cars don’t realize that essentially every electric car can be charged with a “Hoover charging cord.”

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#69

Post by bambax »

Mistletoe wrote: post #34
bambax wrote: post #26

> the £7,695 tiny electric car that has no boot, a 28mph top speed and range of just 46 miles I live in Paris and do everything with an e-bike that also has no boot, no passenger seat, a top speed of ~20mph, a range of ~30 miles... but cost me around €1,200 (since I built it myself). It now has over 7,500 miles. In day trafic it's probably much faster than the Ami, and it can also be put on a train. Couldn't be happi…

What are the death rates for bicyclists vs small cars like this? I recently considered a motorcycle and the death rates were too appalling for me to go through with it. Having a metal cage around you and windows is too vital for me. Edit: I found this. >The motorcycle fatality rate is over 17 times greater, and bicycle fatality rates are nearly 10 times greater than that for automobiles.

I've been driving a motorcycle for over 30 years; I still own one although I never use it anymore. I may die today on my bicycle but one thing is certain: I'm too old to die young.

Re: The Citroen Ami – tiny electric car with no boot, 28mph top speed, 46 mile range

#70

Post by masklinn »

layer8 wrote: post #61
Mistletoe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the death rates for bicyclists vs small cars like this? I recently considered a motorcycle and the death rates were too appalling for me to go through with it. Having a metal cage around you and windows is too vital for me. Edit: I found this. >The motorcycle fatality rate is over 17 times greater, and bicycle fatality rates are nearly 10 times greater than that for automobiles.

The question is how often bikes get into an accident vs. cars, relative to the number of comparable trips made, which is difficult to measure. The above statistics probably only tell you that if you get into an accident that happens to get reported, what is your relative survival rate then. It’s not surprising that bike riders have a lower survival rate when a car is involved. That doesn’t mean that bike riders in ge…

An other question is, what does that become when you actually invest in proper bike and pedestrian infrastructure?
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