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Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#61

Post by Cameri »

nobody9999 wrote: post #52
Cameri wrote: post #24

I don't agree Nostr is P2P since clients must connect to relays and there's no provision at the time for client to client connectivity. I found out about Nostr and due to the simplicity of the protocol I was able to start building right away. I implemented a relay using Typescript: https://github.com/Cameri/nostr-ts-relay I also wrote this dead simple SMTP to Nostr gateway: https://github.com/Cameri/smtp-nostr-gatewa…

How does your client (or any nostr client) deal with discoverability? I'm not piling on nostr here, that's an issue with ActivityPub as well as most decentralized platforms/protocols?

I'm not working on a client. But some of the ones I've used have a Global Feed/Explore section like Astral.ninja and Damus.

I wrote a simple directory you can use to find users and channels here: https://nostr-fzf.netlify.app

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#63

Post by pstuart »

anon291 wrote: post #53
egypturnash wrote: post #10

So how does nostr propose to solve the problem where there is, in fact, quite a lot of content that you want to filter out, whether because it makes for a better experience for the people using this protocol to talk to each other, or because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out? https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-spe... is a pretty d…

Quoted post unavailable.

Wow, nice "people are saying" play. Every single time the laptop story comes up it's in a butthurt way that is hilariously selective in its indignation.

Misinformation/disinformation is a thing and is not considered healthy for discourse. It also seems to be willingly embraced when it serves one's biases. Pity.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#64

Post by westhom »

bawolff wrote: post #37

So reading the github page this sounds basically like a variation on RSS. There are a number of web servers that host content (either for free or for money) [called relays]. Clients download recent posts Identity is based on public key, allowing users more control and the ability to easily change relays. So is RSS + pubkey based identity the right way to think about this?

I like to think of it more like (old) Usenet with pubkeys. It gets more at the distributed database factor.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#65

Post by arcticbull »

jonstaab wrote: post #59
noizejoy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work via computing should be a non-starter for anyone caring for limiting environmental damage.

Bitcoin is carbon-negative believe it or not. Not that CO2 emissions are a meaningful measure of environmental stewardship.

I absolutely, unequivocally do not believe it.

Bitcoin consumes 111TWh annually, the power consumption of the Netherlands, and emits 62Mt of CO2 per year, the same as Belarus. It also yields 42kT of e-waste per year.

Each transaction produces 650kg of CO2, consumes 1160kWh of power (as much as 40 days consumption for the average American home) and produces 450g of e-waste (about the same as hucking your iPad into the garbage can each time you transact on-chain).

97% of all Bitcoin mining hardware will never successfully produce a single block in its entire useful life, going from factory, to space heater, to garbage can - while about 60% of all the power consumed comes from oil, natural gas and coal. So whoever sold producers the offsets I assume you must be alluding to better have replanted the entire Amazon rainforest by now. (Quick spoiler, carbon offsets are also a scam, generally speaking).

To say you're going to need to get some sources is an understatement about as large at Bitcoin's environmental footprint.

You can find all this in [1] or you can just reverse it yourself from the specs of the latest AntMiner and the current hash rate. Some napkin math is all you need.

I'm honestly amazed people still believe something so trivially falsifiable, but with everything else going on in 2022...

[1] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#66

Post by kuramitropolis »

anon291 wrote: post #53
egypturnash wrote: post #10

So how does nostr propose to solve the problem where there is, in fact, quite a lot of content that you want to filter out, whether because it makes for a better experience for the people using this protocol to talk to each other, or because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out? https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-spe... is a pretty d…

Quoted post unavailable.

What stake do you have in either of the debates that you're referencing? When was the last time a politician's family member or a trans person did anything good or bad for you, personally?

If you didn't allow social media to get you invested in these manufactured pseudo-political pseudo-events, you'd be free to realize that Trump and Biden are both obvious idiots and crooks; that people's gender identities, biochemical makeup, and surgical history are obviously completely irrelevant to complete strangers; and that many other things that you waste your time constructing your tribal identity around are obviously complete bullshit that someone artificially planted into the discourse for their own benefit. That someone couldn't care less about your best interests as a person, anon291.

The problem isn't that Twitter and Facebook censor one side of those debates and promote the other. The problem is that people are using them in the first place! That way, social media is the thing that forces those debates to exist in the first place - by making you feel like you have a stake in events that are completely remote from your life. Whose agenda is being promoted is tangential to the fact that these unelected, unaccountable corporate bodies have entrenched themselves in a position where they can basically replace our individual world-models with this sort of outrageous nonsense. That's what's fucking democracy up, and in the most elegant way, too: your right to make free choices between alternatives is preserved, but only inconsequential choices are ever presented.

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog; on corporate social media, nobody cares that you aren't a dog.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#67

Post by ekianjo »

egypturnash wrote: post #10

So how does nostr propose to solve the problem where there is, in fact, quite a lot of content that you want to filter out, whether because it makes for a better experience for the people using this protocol to talk to each other, or because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out? https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-spe... is a pretty d…

> r because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out?

There are solid laws protecting copyright everywhere yet it is stilm trivially easy to find copyrighted content available for free online. Laws dont mean anything unless they are or can be enforced.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#68

Post by ekianjo »

arcticbull wrote: post #65
jonstaab wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is carbon-negative believe it or not. Not that CO2 emissions are a meaningful measure of environmental stewardship.

I absolutely, unequivocally do not believe it. Bitcoin consumes 111TWh annually, the power consumption of the Netherlands, and emits 62Mt of CO2 per year, the same as Belarus. It also yields 42kT of e-waste per year. Each transaction produces 650kg of CO2, consumes 1160kWh of power (as much as 40 days consumption for the average American home) and produces 450g of e-waste (about the same as hucking your iPad into the…

> Bitcoin consumes 111TWh annually, the power consumption of the Netherlands, and emits 62Mt of CO2 per year, the same as Belarus. It also yields 42kT of e-waste per year.

it only consumes as much as the complexity required to roll out new blocks. As its price goes down so does the energy required to find new blocks. It is not static.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#69

Post by encryptluks2 »

remram wrote: post #26
chromatin wrote: post #5

Link to nostr NIPs (nostr improvement proposals): https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/README.md One of the neat things about nostr is that while it has already been used to build a decentralized Twitter like social network, the protocol could also be used to build encrypted P2P chat, traditional discussion forum, alerting/push style notifications, and numerous other applications.

Might be worth going with "enhancement proposal" instead so you don't call your governance documents "nips".

They should go all in to find an acronym for the full word.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#70

Post by arcticbull »

ekianjo wrote: post #68
arcticbull wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely, unequivocally do not believe it. Bitcoin consumes 111TWh annually, the power consumption of the Netherlands, and emits 62Mt of CO2 per year, the same as Belarus. It also yields 42kT of e-waste per year. Each transaction produces 650kg of CO2, consumes 1160kWh of power (as much as 40 days consumption for the average American home) and produces 450g of e-waste (about the same as hucking your iPad into the…

> Bitcoin consumes 111TWh annually, the power consumption of the Netherlands, and emits 62Mt of CO2 per year, the same as Belarus. It also yields 42kT of e-waste per year. it only consumes as much as the complexity required to roll out new blocks. As its price goes down so does the energy required to find new blocks. It is not static.

I gave current numbers. Surprisingly (and obviously unfortunately) the price change hasn't had an impact on energy consumption commensurate with the drop. There's a lot that goes into it - for instance cost basis of power: theft of power, graft, corruption, etc. If you're able to steal the power then it doesn't matter much so long as you can afford new miners.

tl;dr: price per coin represents something of a bounding function on consumption of resources (including mining hardware and electricity) but it's not as tightly correlated as hoped.

My point though is the idea all that consumption has been papered over by what I assume is buying some offsets - and now it's magically carbon neutral - is silly and obviously wrong.

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