Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE • Hacker News Board

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#61

Post by loeg » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

jakub_g wrote: post #45

torstenvl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's waterproof if you maintain it. There's special detergent and whatnot. We use Gore-TEX jackets in the Marines, and in the field you can tell who washed their gear correctly and who didn't.

The term to google is "durable water repellent" (DWR). In sport shops you can buy sprays or washing liquids to treat the jackets. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_water_repellent Also note each jacket has a different thickness of the gore-tex layer which conditions how many hours of rain it can withstand.

Yeah. Nikwax is a big brand.

You can also get "Shakedry" Gore-tex products, which don't have an outer layer needing DWR treatments at all.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#62

Post by loeg » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:47 PM UTC

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #53

As someone who lives in SoCal I'm astonished by the amount of shoes sold here which are GTX. I always think they don't breathe as good as just normal shoes. Thoughts?

Yeah, you don't need GoreTex stuff in SoCal.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#63

Post by gorbypark » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #53

As someone who lives in SoCal I'm astonished by the amount of shoes sold here which are GTX. I always think they don't breathe as good as just normal shoes. Thoughts?

Anecdotally, they definitely don’t breath as well as shoes without, which is to be expected give n the properties of gore-tex. Since Gore-Tex needs to be kept clean and washed regularity, my theory is the shoes will perform well in a lab/testing but in the real world will get dirty and “plugged” up pretty quick. Shoes are gonna see a ton of dirt compared to a jacket. I avoid Gore-Tex foot wear unless it’s for a winter mountaineering and waterproofness is essential.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#64

Post by baxtr » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

fire wrote: post #20

samwillis wrote: post #17

The article doesn't mention (other than a brief nod to the brand) the other massive use of PTFE, none sticks surfaces originally under the Teflon brand, most commonly found on cookware. It truly is a "magic" material. Teflon and other PTFE based none stick surfaces are now really quite controversial due to the toxic gasses they can give off of you heat them too high. And the manufacturing processes is potentially lin…

Yeah, Adam Ragusea has a decent video[0] covering PFAS coating safety and production concerns; I hadn't realized how bad the factory side of things were prior to this - I only knew that overheating a teflon coated pan will destroy the coating, release toxic gas, and... kill any pet birds in your apartment :( 0: https://youtu.be/vZ1KmVmpC8o

PFTE is different from PFAS.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#65

Post by cobalt » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:58 PM UTC

jakub_g wrote: post #45

torstenvl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's waterproof if you maintain it. There's special detergent and whatnot. We use Gore-TEX jackets in the Marines, and in the field you can tell who washed their gear correctly and who didn't.

The term to google is "durable water repellent" (DWR). In sport shops you can buy sprays or washing liquids to treat the jackets. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_water_repellent Also note each jacket has a different thickness of the gore-tex layer which conditions how many hours of rain it can withstand.

dwr != gore-tex wash. DWR is the cheaper/non-permanent waterproofing solution (likely containing PTFE) to add waterproofing to an otherwise non-waterproof jacket (or to make the outer layer waterproof)

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#66

Post by throwawaaarrgh » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 11:00 PM UTC

it's just too bad that once the inside of a goretex product gets wet it takes twice as long for it to dry. don't take goretex on long multi day excursions if there's a chance of getting soaked

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#67

Post by count » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #33

CharlesW wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People get so upset about Toot and Coq and Gimp, but Gore seems totally OK. For me (a native American English speaker) the context matters. When used in a name or as part of a longer name (e.g. Gore-TEX), it's totally okay. Actual gore can be upsetting, but the word itself is commonly used in content warnings and guides. "Gimp" is different than "Coq" or "Cox" (a popular cable provider in the U.S.) in that it's con…

> gimp is considered offensive to the disabled TIL! I always thought it was offensive because of its use in bdsm.

Those are...functionally the same thing. That is why it is used in bdsm.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#68

Post by resoluteteeth » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 11:16 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #27

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #15

Don't know if it's the same, these days, but when I was more "outdoorsy," having the Gore-TEX™ label on something always at least doubled the price. We usually considered it to be worth it.

I don't see much Gore-Tex(tm) stuff around anymore. I was shopping for some rain gear and I don't think it came up. Are there better materials now or is it just too expensive?

Most companies are just using their own equivalent PTFE membranes because it's cheaper

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#69

Post by DoingIsLearning » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #64

fire wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Adam Ragusea has a decent video[0] covering PFAS coating safety and production concerns; I hadn't realized how bad the factory side of things were prior to this - I only knew that overheating a teflon coated pan will destroy the coating, release toxic gas, and... kill any pet birds in your apartment :( 0: https://youtu.be/vZ1KmVmpC8o

PFTE is different from PFAS.

This is wrong, PTFE is a PFAS.

PFAS is a family of Per or poly fluoroalkyl substances.

Basically it's a group of substances that have very long ass Carbon and Flour chains.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#70

Post by labawi » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #54

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #39

Wonderful fabric for mountain gear. Unfortunately, like Teflon cooking pans, its amazing properties come from a coating with perfluorinated octyl sulfonate, a known endocrine disruptor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7722801/

Teflon(brand) coated pans don't use PFOA or PFOS in their manufacture and PFOA is banned in the US for cookware.

Is it more precisely: don't use PFOA or PFOS anymore, switching to less-proven-guilty chemicals with different lengths?

Either way, my concerns are mostly: how much fluorinated waste they release from factories and what happens at the end of product lifetime. Solid fluorinated compounds don't seem atrocious, as they can be reduced to safe minerals if burned properly unlike the spray-on compounds and factory leakage.