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Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

wwws.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#61

Post by dpe82 »

polymatter wrote: post #55
dpe82 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a couple hours. On a Sunday.

on a law that is one step shy of banning the whole internet world-wide. since pretty much every site allows some user content and a single accusation will down that entire site, i'd hope for a better response than that. edit: banning is too harsh. censored to the agreement of all corporate interests, all potential corporate interests and the interests of those rich and American enough to have influence

Well quit griping about the lack of involvement and go tell some people about it to help increase the number.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#62

Post by mkramlich »

wdewind wrote: post #6

I was on a conference call w/ Zoe Lofgren (CA congress woman who is on the Judiciary fighting the hell out of this bill) and a bunch of NYC tech companies last weekend and she said petitions are essentially ignored, and instead to make phone calls to your reps and directly into the capital. This isn't to say don't sign this, but if you are really concerned, the absolute bottom line is phone calls. Anything you can do…

I understand the present day practical reason why she thinks that phone calls matter more, I really do, however phone calls are a time inefficient way of accomplishing that result. There are just so many things people could be doing with their lives, including communicating opinion about other political issues, that we should allow all of them to be done as efficiently as possible. An online petition is more efficient. The key is trust. What we really need is some sort of highly automatable, electronic way of voting or expressing political positions in a way that is trustable. We shouldn't not trust some expression of political intent merely because it's fast/efficient, that's almost ridiculous, instead we should only not trust it if it is forged or shilled.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#63

Post by rimantas »

daeken wrote: post #60
nostromo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polis is actually "one of us" -- he made a good amount of money doing startups. He opposes SOPA. In this case, call him up and send him some love for doing the right thing. He's a pretty awesome guy -- check him out here entering the lyrics to "The Internet is for Porn" from Avenue Q into the congressional record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owyNvlVJ1qE

While that's quite funny, it bothers me that he seems to be arguing for SOPA to effectively not cover porn. Why is it that the intellectual property rights of pornographers should not be protected? Why are their rights not as important as the rights of others?

"The Good Soldier Svejk" said that the government that raises the price of beer is destined to fall within one year. I guess same applies to porn…

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#64

Post by AgentConundrum »

mkramlich wrote: post #62
wdewind wrote: post #6

I was on a conference call w/ Zoe Lofgren (CA congress woman who is on the Judiciary fighting the hell out of this bill) and a bunch of NYC tech companies last weekend and she said petitions are essentially ignored, and instead to make phone calls to your reps and directly into the capital. This isn't to say don't sign this, but if you are really concerned, the absolute bottom line is phone calls. Anything you can do…

I understand the present day practical reason why she thinks that phone calls matter more, I really do, however phone calls are a time inefficient way of accomplishing that result. There are just so many things people could be doing with their lives, including communicating opinion about other political issues, that we should allow all of them to be done as efficiently as possible. An online petition is more efficien…

> that we should allow all of them to be done as efficiently as possible

Efficiency is the enemy for things like this, because it only shows a minimum amount of involvement with the issue. You show you care at all by participating in petitions, but you prove you care more by participating in more time-intensive activities.

This is something that you'll see people close to politicians say quite a lot, that the method of communication counts, and a multiplier is used to count your input based on that method. It's why you're supposed to write to your $political_representative on paper rather that firing off an email, and it's why you're supposed to hand write the letter (legibly, please!) rather than typing it. A person who takes an hour or two drafting a compelling response to legislation, writing a final copy by hand, taking it to the post office, affixing a stamp, and mailing it out has shown more concern for the issue than does a guy who goes on HN, sees this link, and fills out a form to effectively just say "yeah, me too, what he said!"

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#65

Post by eftpotrm »

lkx wrote: post #38
wdewind wrote: post #6

I was on a conference call w/ Zoe Lofgren (CA congress woman who is on the Judiciary fighting the hell out of this bill) and a bunch of NYC tech companies last weekend and she said petitions are essentially ignored, and instead to make phone calls to your reps and directly into the capital. This isn't to say don't sign this, but if you are really concerned, the absolute bottom line is phone calls. Anything you can do…

If Congress can be bought, why not expose the people doing the buying, and their lobbyists, and exert pressure on them instead of writing or calling Congressmen who don't care?

They wouldn't be trying to buy this sort of legislation if they didn't think it was, in balance, in their commercial interests. They've likely already modelled the effect of any consumer backlash in their analysis, so why would they listen to you? They were expecting to lose you anyway.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#66

Post by estel »

JonnieCache wrote: post #48
viraptor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're spreading FUD really. Have a look at current UK petitions which have passed the 100k votes: fuel prices - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/347 (small decrease implemented, plans for the future shared) immigration - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19658 (basic plans shared, recently implemented changes listed, already heard some people having visa issues, so something is happening) su…

All that stuff is relatively non-controversial though, I don't consider the system to have been really tested until the people demand something the government really doesn't want to do. When we get a million signatures against war in iran, or to unilaterally leave the EU or something, then we'll see what happens.

Uncontroversial to remove all Government benefits from those convicted of involvement in the Summer Riots?

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#67

Post by danssig »

mkramlich wrote: post #62
wdewind wrote: post #6

I was on a conference call w/ Zoe Lofgren (CA congress woman who is on the Judiciary fighting the hell out of this bill) and a bunch of NYC tech companies last weekend and she said petitions are essentially ignored, and instead to make phone calls to your reps and directly into the capital. This isn't to say don't sign this, but if you are really concerned, the absolute bottom line is phone calls. Anything you can do…

I understand the present day practical reason why she thinks that phone calls matter more, I really do, however phone calls are a time inefficient way of accomplishing that result. There are just so many things people could be doing with their lives, including communicating opinion about other political issues, that we should allow all of them to be done as efficiently as possible. An online petition is more efficien…

And this is exactly the issue. If this issue isn't important enough for you to invest some of your time to make your opinion known on the subject, then you're probably not going to change your vote on it anyway.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#68

Post by lkx »

eftpotrm wrote: post #65
lkx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Congress can be bought, why not expose the people doing the buying, and their lobbyists, and exert pressure on them instead of writing or calling Congressmen who don't care?

They wouldn't be trying to buy this sort of legislation if they didn't think it was, in balance, in their commercial interests. They've likely already modelled the effect of any consumer backlash in their analysis, so why would they listen to you? They were expecting to lose you anyway.

By "people" I refer to the human beings who run the corporations, not the corporations themselves. I doubt very much that executives behind these moves at corporations have taken being held responsible personally into account. In my opinion, they should be held accountable personally, not only by shareholders, but by society at large.

I believe that corporate executives act with impunity because society, as a whole, has come to consider corporations as people (beyond the legal fiction of Personhood). Executives hide behind this "personhood". Why should we stop at: "BigCo is doing something evil", when the individual board members and executives of BigCo are ultimately the ones who make the decisions?

Zuckerberg, and in an earlier era, Gates, are examples of two CEOs who are held personally liable in the court of public opinion for the misdeeds of their corporations. In my opinion, more of that would be healthy.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#69

Post by danssig »

lkx wrote: post #38
wdewind wrote: post #6

I was on a conference call w/ Zoe Lofgren (CA congress woman who is on the Judiciary fighting the hell out of this bill) and a bunch of NYC tech companies last weekend and she said petitions are essentially ignored, and instead to make phone calls to your reps and directly into the capital. This isn't to say don't sign this, but if you are really concerned, the absolute bottom line is phone calls. Anything you can do…

If Congress can be bought, why not expose the people doing the buying, and their lobbyists, and exert pressure on them instead of writing or calling Congressmen who don't care?

Because the bribery is done completely in the open and legally. You get campaign contributions or a cushy contractor position worth millions to you personally. It's not illegal so "exposing" the companies engaging in this behavior won't have much effect on them.

Re: Whitehouse.gov petition to veto SOPA

#70

Post by nestlequ1k »

Not a chance. Election is coming up and we're talking about 100s of millions of dollars of contributions from the entertainment industry. He'll sign it.

On the other hand, if he veto's maybe we can make up the difference. I'd be happy to contribute to a president who is a proven proponent of internet liberty. I just don't have the bankroll of the hollywood execs. Maybe some of the recent internet billionaires can fill in the gaps.

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