Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#61

Post by stuntkite »

nradov wrote: post #57
stuntkite wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister recommended Wim Hoff. I'll scope it out. I had been considering buying an o2 concentrator since 2020 and I do have some voice/breath training and have found some exercises related to that that aren't dissimilar from Wim Hoff show some reduction in symptoms. Honestly, I feel very lucky to be as functional as I am. I do worry about how medical and political systems are responding to COVID and long COVID, but…

There is no proven health benefit to using an oxygen concentrator for patients without lung disease (such as emphysema). The limiting factor in delivering oxygen to tissues is hemoglobin, not inhaled PPO2. Extended exposure to elevated PPO2 can cause oxidative damage to lungs and nerves, especially above about 0.5 bar, so you don't necessarily want to use it unless you need it.

This is solid info constructed in a form that includes so much that I needed. I did not have any designs, really, to go into this and experiment on myself, but you know... the wikis do pile up.

Thank so so much for this. Very useful information.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#63

Post by matthewterhune »

colechristensen wrote: post #26

Covid sometimes infects heart tissue and that infection can linger long after you’re asymptomatic. It is not at all surprising that a vaccination after such an infection can cause cardiac symptoms as your immune system is tuned up and starts attacking the infection in your heart. This is A) rather uncommon and B) hard to verify scientifically. Not to mention that this not happening is a morality issue for a lot of fo…

If this were the cause, I would expect to see similar rates of myocarditis from the viral vector vaccines, but it's much lower. The MRNA vaccines work by causing cells to produce antigens, which are presented on the cell surface and induce the immune system to attack the cell. We know now as well that the lipid vehicle doesn't stay at the injection site but distributes through the body to varying degrees. No need to posit a secondary mechanism - it's more likely the vaccine is just carried to the heart in some cases, is absorbed, and induces immune attack like it does in other tissue.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#64

Post by matthewterhune »

matthewterhune wrote: post #63
colechristensen wrote: post #26

Covid sometimes infects heart tissue and that infection can linger long after you’re asymptomatic. It is not at all surprising that a vaccination after such an infection can cause cardiac symptoms as your immune system is tuned up and starts attacking the infection in your heart. This is A) rather uncommon and B) hard to verify scientifically. Not to mention that this not happening is a morality issue for a lot of fo…

If this were the cause, I would expect to see similar rates of myocarditis from the viral vector vaccines, but it's much lower. The MRNA vaccines work by causing cells to produce antigens, which are presented on the cell surface and induce the immune system to attack the cell. We know now as well that the lipid vehicle doesn't stay at the injection site but distributes through the body to varying degrees. No need to…

The biodistribution of the viral vector vaccines is likely different and also dependant on what tissue the vector prefers to infect, so when it leaks out of the injection site you get side effects in other places (clotting and vascular effects) instead of the heart.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#65

Post by random314 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #48
clairity wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, i was going to make a similar kind of critique (but probably less lucidly). the effect sizes are tiny and the confidence intervals overwhelm the supposed conclusions. seems to be motivated reasoning rather than impartial science. covid may cause a rise in heart disease in unvaxed individuals relative to vaxed, but this study does nothing to support, and especially doesn't prove, that contention. one thing it d…

> Covid may cause a rise in heart disease in unvaxed individuals relative to vaxed, but this study does nothing to support, and especially doesn't prove, that contention. The issue that comes to mind for me is there no explanation given on why the unvaccinated were unvaccinated. From what I remember, the jab was not recommended for those with compromised immune system or other similar less-than-healthy conditions. Wi…

A double dose is recommended for the immunocompromised

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#66

Post by jjeaff »

obsidience wrote: post #51

While I'm probably wasting my time here. I'm going to say what I think many aren't saying. We need to heavily study and reflect on the impact of vaccinations regardless of the outcome and IF "we made the right decision". This means comparing outcomes between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. While this study might be a step in the right direction, I feel there are too many in the medical, political and scientific sphe…

You seem to think that COVID was definitely man made, but we still don't have enough data to make any kind of assertion on that. Some recent finds lean more to a zoonotic source.

As for censorship, I don't think anyone is censoring truly good studies on this stuff right now. And I don't think there is that much central control of the entire medical and scientific community.

Take ivermectin, for example. Low power, poorly conducted studies trying to point to the benefits of Ivermectin to treat covid are still coming out. Doesn't seem like they are being censored.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#67

Post by scns »

m463 wrote: post #55
mmastrac wrote: post #9

I think we'll discover that the post-vax myocarditis and pericarditis were caused by pre-existing, latent COVID infections. This probably means that there's a large number of people walking around with completely asymptomatic infections until the body attacks it either because of a vaccination or it finally stumbles across it and generates an immune response.

I can't help but think -- what if it is from people that work from home, don't exercise as much when they went to work, or are getting older post-covid

It was first observed in Israel iirc, that you can get myocarditis by exercising in the period after the shot. It is the same when you exercise while sick. That might explain why more men where affected too.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#68

Post by eurasiantiger »

duncancarroll wrote: post #7
stuntkite wrote: post #6

I got OG Covid very early in 2020. I had something like a heart attack about six months later. It has not reoccurred. I suspect I had something kind of like a stroke a bit ago. The event was accompanied with very terrifying and specific neurological event. A loud noise that was only inside my head and unreal "sounding" that worked like a corkscrew from the right side of my head to the front while my vision dimmed. I…

I'm sorry. I got Omicron in January '22 despite being double vaxx'd, and I felt totally fine until 3-4 mo. later when I started to get recurrent dizzy spells, major fatigue, and bouts of anxiety, which are all very unusual for me. Checkup / bloodwork showed nothing. I am 41 y.o. who exercise regularly, does not smoke, rarely drinks, etc. So far I can still function and maintain a job, but it makes me wonder what's go…

That seems like textbook PTSD.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#69

Post by yellowapple »

obsidience wrote: post #51

While I'm probably wasting my time here. I'm going to say what I think many aren't saying. We need to heavily study and reflect on the impact of vaccinations regardless of the outcome and IF "we made the right decision". This means comparing outcomes between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. While this study might be a step in the right direction, I feel there are too many in the medical, political and scientific sphe…

> The silence is truly deafening.

If you're only hearing silence in the vaccination debate (which, mind you, has been raging since before the first SARS outbreak, let alone the current SARS 2: CoV Boogaloo), then you might want to get your ears checked ;)

There is no shortage of medical professionals with all sorts of opinions on whether or not to vaccinate for any manner of disease, COVID included. Sure, the overwhelming majority have reached a consensus in favor of vaccination doing more good than harm (for good reason), but the tiny minority with contrary opinions are not at all being censored (if anything, they're being anti-censored, e.g. by social media posts and your usual gaggle of conspiracy-theory-peddling news outlets).

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#70

Post by yellowapple »

nradov wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #9

I think we'll discover that the post-vax myocarditis and pericarditis were caused by pre-existing, latent COVID infections. This probably means that there's a large number of people walking around with completely asymptomatic infections until the body attacks it either because of a vaccination or it finally stumbles across it and generates an immune response.

Unlikely. Your hypothesis wouldn't explain the significantly higher rate of vaccine induced myocarditis in young males compared to females. Infection rates are similar between the sexes so there must be something else going on.

> significantly

The studies I've seen largely indicate that it's insignificantly higher, at most.

> vaccine induced

There are far too many confounding variables to declare with any sort of honesty that it's "vaccine induced" - even if you could prove correlation (remember: correlation != causation).

For example:

> young males

Gender disparities exist in youth athletics participation, and student athletes are well known to be disproportionately at risk of sudden death from undiagnosed myocarditis (see https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/preventing-sudden-cardiac-ar... as one information source which predates COVID and the vaccines thereof). Young males being more likely to participate in activities which can cause myocarditis or worsen existing myocarditis would readily explain the gender disparity, in a way that neither infection nor vaccination likely would.

Post reply on HN