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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#61

Post by renewiltord »

damagednoob wrote: post #36

I don't understand poverty statistics. With this news, the UK now has more people living in poverty than India (16% vs 22%?). If it is valuable to judge poverty on relative income, you would think the rational course of action would be mass immigration from the UK to India but that is clearly not the case.

I think that's just a measure that is meant to vary over time for a single state rather than vary over states for a single time. India struggles with problems of feeding, sheltering, and hygiene for its population.

Ultimately, the purpose of that statistic for the state to be able to tell whether its policies are working. The state, therefore, must construct measures that show progress when it makes progress and show regress when it makes errors. A measure that ultimately shows 0 progress even when real progress is made, is not that useful to the state.

A data nerd may want to normalize definitions (I certainly do and the MMR and IMR measurements are ones I find particularly annoying) but ultimately a state measures for its own purposes and not mine.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#63

Post by dirtyid »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Wut, India started from a better state, took same amount of time, to progress 1/5th as much, while still having north korean tier food insecurity. Dooming generations and hundreds of millions of avoidable deaths due to being stuck in poverty for longer than need be. There's nothing to be envious about. Also eliminating rural poverty + building rural infra is the actual hard part that takes time and resources. We'll have to see if India has the resources to even get there, PRC didn't until $6000 gdp per capita. India and by extention relying on democracies to develop still a case of what not to do. Also India did their own sterilization / family planning campaign.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#64

Post by Aunche »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #48
diordiderot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all the Chinese got was 2.5x GDP per capita

They also have 300% debt to GDP compared to 84% for India. We'll never know how much more advanced India would be if they invested as much in infrastructure.

> They also have 300% debt to GDP compared to 84% for India.

You're comparing the total debt of China with the national debt of India.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#65

Post by InTheArena »

This is one of the messages that need to be pushed hard - globalization - with it's implications on the "first world" global middle class - has helped make this possible.

It's like talking to people opposed to GMO rice. They are fine with an ideological position that GMO foods should be eliminated until you point out the alternative is hundreds of millions dead of starvation.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#66

Post by no_butterscotch »

Kukumber wrote: post #26
seibelj wrote: post #5

[flagged]

It has nothing to do with capitalism, it's all about strong government, strong institutions and the people who understand and pursue a common goal i.e: a synchronized society If anything, capitalism wins at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/india-s-d...

Not OP, but I think what he's referring to is communism declining a generation ago:

> Following liberalizing economic reforms in the late 1980s and early 1990s, India is now one of the world's fastest growing economies, as well as the second most populous.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110520002800/https://www.ers.u...

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#67

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

m4jor wrote: post #46
paxys wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is the number one threat to democracy in the USA. There's no point continuing to blame China, Russia or whoever else for domestic problems.

Nation-state hackers from Russia and China are certainly running active campaigns in US elections to disrupt or manipulate them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-h... Best evidence of this is the previous 2020 elections.

We literally elected people that are telling us our elections are rigged. Even if Russia and China orchestrated it, we're stupid enough to eat it up.

"Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens.

This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders." - George Carlin

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#68

Post by nsenifty »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

My first job was in Infosys back in 2001. Coming from a lower-middle class farming family, it was a huge deal. My monthly gross was something my dad (farmer) + mom (school teacher) would earn in an entire year. I remember my dad proudly putting a portrait of NR Narayana Murthy (founder of Infosys) on our wall - it is usually reserved for gods/ancestors or revered sages.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#69

Post by mc32 »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #55
endisneigh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a black eye to the ccp when they’ve lifted twice as many from poverty as India? And far higher growth, gdp per capita, etc. weird comment https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

Are those numbers from China? Is there a reason to trust them if so, considering they would be coming from a brutal, authoritarian dictator?

I wouldn’t doubt that they are roughly accurate.

The question is is the growth worth the pound of flesh the CCP takes as its right in return for that growth and social stability?

Another fair question is could it not have been achieved through a more humane system of governance?

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