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Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

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Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#61

Post by Spooky23 »

_kbh_ wrote: post #42
Sakos wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manpads really aren't all that effective against helicopters. I don't think anything has fundamentally changed in the past 40ish years in regards to the ubiquitousness of manpads or how they work. Helicopters are comparatively cheap, effective, flexible and difficult to shoot down without proper AA, but that's what combined arms is for, or a lot of luck. Only about 40 helicopters were lost to hostile fire in Iraq fro…

> Only about 40 helicopters were lost to hostile fire in Iraq from 2004-2009 Russia has lost that many helicopters in about 9 months in Ukraine, id say the effectiveness of helicopters is largely dependent on the capabilities of your opponent and whether or not you can gain air superiority.

The Russians are a tough counter example because they are operating really poorly and seem unable to coordinate or train operators well.

Their use of tanks is a great example. Russian losses are huge, mostly because they aren’t coordinating with infantry and artillery fires.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#62

Post by lm28469 »

bee_rider wrote: post #23

Where do attack helicopters fit into modern war, out of curiosity? From my very uninformed point of view -- seems like in a world where man-portable weapons are getting more and more capable, being in a relatively (compared to jets) slowly moving, lightly (?) armored flying vehicle would be pretty terrifying.

I mean, nothing fits into modern war when cheap portable anti tank and air defense system exist.

It's always been the same, I think people are confused because for decades the US has been attacking AK47 wielding farmers with $$$ cutting edge technology but wars between relatively equivalent forces is always a blood bath, everything you can come up with has a cheaper counter measure

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#63

Post by mrphoebs »

twixfel wrote: post #58
mrphoebs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is not anti west. The west has this binary/absolute way of looking at things, "either somebody is with them or against them". India recognises the world is a much more complicated place and sees the world through its own perspective rather than whatever self serving agenda driven perspective the west deems as the only valid one. India has a long track record of being a non-aligned power. If anything india has b…

But even that perspective that you ascribe to India is reductive. It seems in your view, India are the only ones who understand complexity, the West are just arrogant morons. In reality, everyone's equally just looking out for themselves. In the West we don't care about Kashmir, in India people don't care about Ukraine. It's the same, until one day India will discover that Russia is useless against China and the US a…

I haven't ascribed an independent perspective to india exclusively, merely pointed out india has an independent perspective. And I did not say west are arrogant morons I said "Some in the west".

I agree with you and as does anybody with even a passing familiarity with international diplomacy, foreign policy by its very nature is about engaging with other countries to further a nation's self interests.

The problem is western democracies need to create a narrative of being the white knights of the world in order to justify use of force, coercion or influence to their people no matter how hypocritical that narrative might be considering their own actions in the past. This absolute narrative by extension also means anyone who isn't falling in line with the party line is painted as being on the "wrong side of history".

India is neither aligned with the west nor russia because of a single policy issue like china, and india does not see the world as a bipolar place like west vs russia, west vs china, whoever vs whoever...

India always engages and will always engage with nations where mutual interests are aligned, help where it can, and be assertive where it needs to be.

India is already aligned with the west in containing china amid other common objectives in the indian ocean through QUAD.

Also china isn't that big of a bugbear for india as some outside india think it is. China is the dominant strategic regional threat but is by no means even remotely close to an existential one.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#64

Post by le-mark »

pjc50 wrote: post #52
simonh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’re in a transition period where it looks like drones will probably replace scout and attack helicopters. In the mean time a chopper like this probably still has a role, but I think they’re on the wrong side of history with this. For now though, while western militaries can afford to hand out LAWS and MANPADS to their troops like sweets, India’s main rivals probably can’t. Yes an individual MANPAD is much c…

The runtime cost of helicopters is pretty terrible, though. You can easily exceed the cost of several expendable "switchblade" type drones simply taking off and flying to the target.

Range and eyeballs are the elements a lot of people leave out. Helos carry the eyeballs with them long ranges. Drones require radios with enough bandwidth for real time video. Which at the range of 100s of km is very non trivial and non cheap.

That’s to say switch blades don’t have comparable range obviously, and that’s not nothing.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#65

Post by lnsru »

baxtr wrote: post #39
T-zex wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I am very much pro Ukraine and all that. But please let’s keep having respect for other humans. No matter how much we hate them. That’s also part of our value system we’re defending over there.

I don’t think, that politics is a topic for HN. But orcs is too nice word for the beasts who put the corpses of men in the city center and force the little crying kids to identify their dead parents. And then shoot whole families as a punishment for resistance. And the western countries are very worried again.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#66

Post by eklavya »

dmix wrote: post #24
eklavya wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All love is irrational. I would still rather love. Some people stay because they care, no need to be disparaging of them. You and I would not enjoy the peace and comfort of the modern world without it because somebody is irrationally willing to live/die for you and me.

There's nothing wrong with nationalism. But typically your sales pitch has to be your country is actually good, not we have to force you (and millions of others) to be here otherwise it won't be good.

No, no sales pitch needed. You either already love your community and your country or you don't. No one should force themselves or others to love or hate it.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#67

Post by eklavya »

alserio wrote: post #28
dmix wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with nationalism. But typically your sales pitch has to be your country is actually good, not we have to force you (and millions of others) to be here otherwise it won't be good.

There can be a lot wrong with nationalism, depending on the definition. I love "us" can also be I hate "the others". And quickly become "the others must not exist". For some arbitrary distinction of what is "us" and what is "others".

Sure, I grew up with a moral system which teaches, all world is your family. Of course, you will feel closer to the ones you live with, just like any big family.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#68

Post by ch4s3 »

simonh wrote: post #30
bee_rider wrote: post #23

Where do attack helicopters fit into modern war, out of curiosity? From my very uninformed point of view -- seems like in a world where man-portable weapons are getting more and more capable, being in a relatively (compared to jets) slowly moving, lightly (?) armored flying vehicle would be pretty terrifying.

I think we’re in a transition period where it looks like drones will probably replace scout and attack helicopters. In the mean time a chopper like this probably still has a role, but I think they’re on the wrong side of history with this. For now though, while western militaries can afford to hand out LAWS and MANPADS to their troops like sweets, India’s main rivals probably can’t. Yes an individual MANPAD is much c…

It seems like helicopters coupled with drones and ground forces could play a role in a rapid advance. They’re probably DOA for urban environments though, just based on what we’re seeing in Ukraine.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#69

Post by naveen99 »

mrphoebs wrote: post #63
twixfel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even that perspective that you ascribe to India is reductive. It seems in your view, India are the only ones who understand complexity, the West are just arrogant morons. In reality, everyone's equally just looking out for themselves. In the West we don't care about Kashmir, in India people don't care about Ukraine. It's the same, until one day India will discover that Russia is useless against China and the US a…

I haven't ascribed an independent perspective to india exclusively, merely pointed out india has an independent perspective. And I did not say west are arrogant morons I said "Some in the west". I agree with you and as does anybody with even a passing familiarity with international diplomacy, foreign policy by its very nature is about engaging with other countries to further a nation's self interests. The problem is…

Why ban tiktok ?

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#70

Post by stickfigure »

bee_rider wrote: post #23

Where do attack helicopters fit into modern war, out of curiosity? From my very uninformed point of view -- seems like in a world where man-portable weapons are getting more and more capable, being in a relatively (compared to jets) slowly moving, lightly (?) armored flying vehicle would be pretty terrifying.

Perun made a video about this:

End of the Helicopter? (no) - MANPADS and helicopter losses in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoKpXvj41A

The TL;DR is "It's complicated".

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