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Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

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Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#61

Post by fsckboy »

teddyh wrote: post #41
thaumasiotes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't link to mobile wikipedia. It is incredibly rude to people who want the normal site, while being of zero benefit to people who want the mobile site.

That used to annoy me a lot, but then I installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/skip-mobile-w... and forgot about it.

it annoys me a lot, but I don't blame it on the people posting, but on the people who put a one way trap door in the code on the site

that's on top of my annoyance with the huge number of people who didn't understand what was good about original html markup and set about adding pixel counts and thinking they needed to know the screen size etc. It's the same people who don't understand unix.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#62

Post by mherdeg »

gambiting wrote: post #51
mherdeg wrote: post #37

I hope they treat it right! My biggest takeaway from visiting Vasa was that it only has decades left, after being essentially immortal underwater, due to some preservation-related choices that seemed right at the time. A final irony for the vessel I guess.

That's not quite what the museum page says: "Vasa lay in the grimy waters in Stockholm for 333 years. After all these years in the water the ship was attacked by bacteria and rust.Vasa was slowly decomposing, and is still doing so today, due to a number of different factors. The museum is conducting world-leading research on how to counteract these decomposition processes. And considering the age, we must say that Va…

Maybe the science on this has changed? The display I saw when I visited in 2016 says they attribute significantly accelerated deterioration to the choice to spray the vessel with PEG.

Some discussion on this at https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/presspacs/2012/....

But I'd certainly believe them if they've changed their estimates.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#64

Post by kyleblarson »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #47

When I told a coworker I was visiting Stockholm for the first time a few years back, we had the following conversation: Him: “You gonna go see the boat museum?” Me: “The what?” Him: “The boat museum. It’s a museum with a boat in it.” Me: “…just one boat?” Him: “Trust me. Go see the boat.” He was right. One of the coolest museums I’ve ever visited in my life.

I generally don't get into museums, but I found the Vasa Museum and the Viking Ship museum in Oslo to be incredibly interesting.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#65

Post by palata »

lproven wrote: post #49
sorenjan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hein Jakobsson completed Vasa, but wasn't the original designer. That was Henrik Hybertsson. Jakobsson widened Vasa somewhat to try to improve it, and Äpplet was even wider. Äpplet was in use for almost 30 years, and was deliberately sunk.

> Jakobsson widened Vasa somewhat to try to improve it, As I recall, the king ordered him to add more gun decks, and he did as he was told. Disobeying a king went badly in the 17th century...

"Just quickly add this one more feature, you'll have time to refactor after the release"

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#66

Post by gokhan »

dendrite9 wrote: post #19
gokhan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visited both. Mary Rose is well presented with all the extracted findings in their own galleries. But visiting Vasa is much better experience, it's intact, you're so close etc.

Have you been to the Mary Rose recently? I read about the changes since I was there around 2000. I remember the spraying and thinking it would take forever for that process to be finished. Interesting to be on that other side of forever and see visitors can see the boat without the spraying chamber in place.

Been there this summer. It's in the section where you go through double doors, to control temp and humidity.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#67

Post by tapland »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #47

When I told a coworker I was visiting Stockholm for the first time a few years back, we had the following conversation: Him: “You gonna go see the boat museum?” Me: “The what?” Him: “The boat museum. It’s a museum with a boat in it.” Me: “…just one boat?” Him: “Trust me. Go see the boat.” He was right. One of the coolest museums I’ve ever visited in my life.

Aside from Vasa, the museums I'd recommend in Stockholm are:

The Royal Amory (https://livrustkammaren.se/en/home/)

A lot of old items from royalty and nobility. If you ever wanted to see how armor was deemed bullet-proof they have some dented chestplates that shows it off.

Swedish Army Museum (https://armemuseum.se/en/start/)

Army history from the 1500s and through the Cold War. Old collections of weapons, explanations of how huge armies were maintaned and fed and iirc they also have a huge old soviet missile.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#68

Post by stavros »

fsckboy wrote: post #61
teddyh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That used to annoy me a lot, but then I installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/skip-mobile-w... and forgot about it.

it annoys me a lot, but I don't blame it on the people posting, but on the people who put a one way trap door in the code on the site that's on top of my annoyance with the huge number of people who didn't understand what was good about original html markup and set about adding pixel counts and thinking they needed to know the screen size etc. It's the same people who don't understand unix.

Seriously, why can't the same page just be responsive? Why do we need two different domains even, instead of the server serving a desktop or mobile page? Why does the mobile page not redirect back to desktop?

So many odd choices.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#69

Post by narrator »

tapland wrote: post #67
DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #47

When I told a coworker I was visiting Stockholm for the first time a few years back, we had the following conversation: Him: “You gonna go see the boat museum?” Me: “The what?” Him: “The boat museum. It’s a museum with a boat in it.” Me: “…just one boat?” Him: “Trust me. Go see the boat.” He was right. One of the coolest museums I’ve ever visited in my life.

Aside from Vasa, the museums I'd recommend in Stockholm are: The Royal Amory ( https://livrustkammaren.se/en/home/ ) A lot of old items from royalty and nobility. If you ever wanted to see how armor was deemed bullet-proof they have some dented chestplates that shows it off. Swedish Army Museum ( https://armemuseum.se/en/start/ ) Army history from the 1500s and through the Cold War. Old collections of weapons, explan…

The Abba museum is also a lot of fun. Yes, that Abba from the 70s.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#70

Post by driscoll42 »

mandevil wrote: post #30
jfk13 wrote: post #7

> The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead to instability. And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage. > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite this, the ship was not successful... Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was appar…

This is one of the things that reading D.K. Brown's pentology on design of RN ships (_Before the Ironclad_, _Warrior to Dreadnought_, _Grand Fleet_, _Nelson to Vanguard_, and _Rebuilding the Royal Navy_) drives home: in the pre-WWI era almost everything is done with fudge factors and building off of what was done before, but a little different, and even into the 1950's there are lots of room for error. One story that…

I... did not need five more books to read, but now I do.
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