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81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

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Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#61

Marketing can only go so far. Are more people finally starting to take their heads out of the cloud? Not only do cloud providers need to pay their own costs, they also need to make a profit on top of that; thus, if one thinks critically, the only time renting can be cheaper than owning is if it's short-term.

Their costs plus their profits is still cheaper than hiring your own people to rebuild what they've already done, except taking much longer and usually ending up with worse service. Unless you're an infrastructure or network logistics company, it's a waste of resources to build your own. Cloud services are so commoditized already it's unlikely to be any sort of meaningful differentiator for your company. Especially i…

I hear this core competency stuff a lot and it’s just not so. I need organizations as small as teams of video editors run their own “datacenters” which may consist of as little as a Jellyfin server. A waste of resources? Is centralization into cloud datacenters or even CDNs all the way to the last mile a more efficient use of resources than plugging a 10gig connection into a NAS? Why haven’t all restaurants been destroyed by Taco Bell when Taco Bell has economies of scale and efficiency most restaurants couldn’t dream of?

Plenty of mid sized data centres make sense too. Something I see in common with many of these businesses is either the requirement to store a lot of stateful data or to have data locality and to not be concerned with things like being able to serve international customers or being a plodding business which will predict at a steady predictable rate. Some people run businesses that run headfirst into cloud companies entire pricing strategy because their business doesn’t work like a VC funded tech startup.

The “but somebody can figure all this stuff out for you” cuts both ways. Why can’t a skilled company make it easier to staff and operate an on premise data centre? Running a datacenter only gets less labour intensive for what you get every year. You know that you can hire people for pretty much any aspect of building or maintaining a datacenter that you can imagine? The datacenter is commodified so why is it special that the cloud is?

I just feel this analysis is a spurious oversimplification and what you’re far more likely to see is a sort of Pareto distribution of datacenters and the cloud is never going to swallow the whole market.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#62
Question 1: is it possible to run AWS / Google cloud with a fixed pre-paid monthly rate? Like e.g. "give me the most webservers for 1000$ / Month plus a Database".

Question 2: does exist some kind of optimization-per-usecase service for such a fixed cost scenario? E.g. "Optimize for Website" or "Optimize for Database" and you can download a Terraform file?

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#63
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? What’s the math?

Some cloud providers are more expensive for many customers that don’t need the infinite scalability but a set of well performing VMs with fast storage and network too. An iPad Pro is faster and cheaper than many cloud resources. I don’t advise to run production workloads on an iPad.

It costs more to self manage services than to use a managed cloud provider in most non trivial setups.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#64
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s opportunity cost. Is it better for developer X to increase revenue by adding a feature or save money reducing a cost? It depends.

If you ask a company if you should reduce costs or increase revenue, they will tell you "yes".

I’d like to have my cake and eat it too. If everything is a priority nothing is a priority.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#65
post #49

How many would say this normally? I.e., what's the baseline? Meanwhile, how many are giving their teams the resources (i.e., people) necessary to do the analytics on the bill required to find & cut costs? Every cloud I've worked with has been terrible at billing in a way that could be reasonable investigated. At one point we literally pulled all the billing data into a SQLite database. (And that was a great idea, as…

> Meanwhile, how many are giving their teams the resources (i.e., people) necessary to do the analytics on the bill required to find & cut costs? Surprisingly enough we have 3 people working on it right now. Sadly they’ve found that it was extremely easy to save several thousands of dollars a day, and has been so for the past two years.

Not sure how you did it but I've worked for a company that enabled you to tag resources with operating hours and stuff got shut down outside of the those operating hours - pretty handy way to cut down on usage because most non-live environments don't need everything running 24x7.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their costs plus their profits is still cheaper than hiring your own people to rebuild what they've already done, except taking much longer and usually ending up with worse service. Unless you're an infrastructure or network logistics company, it's a waste of resources to build your own. Cloud services are so commoditized already it's unlikely to be any sort of meaningful differentiator for your company. Especially i…

I hear this core competency stuff a lot and it’s just not so. I need organizations as small as teams of video editors run their own “datacenters” which may consist of as little as a Jellyfin server. A waste of resources? Is centralization into cloud datacenters or even CDNs all the way to the last mile a more efficient use of resources than plugging a 10gig connection into a NAS? Why haven’t all restaurants been dest…

I did an extensive cost analysis of a 1MW datacenter vs Cloud 10 years or so ago, so this stale data but take it as an anecdote. Accounting for the lease, facillity equipment (UPS, STS, CRACs, generator, fuel, raised flooring, cabinets, BMS, etc), compute equipment (PDUs, servers, spare parts), facilities and technical staff, the costs for AWS were substantially cheaper.

The trick is you need skills, most of which are not in demand anymore and difficult to fill. If you pretend like you can hire and manage: the results are clear.

There are opex/capex aspects which I don't understand, I amortized servers with an average server lifetime of 3 years.

It's easier for most people to spend money with one vendor, though, and that's where AWS/GCP makes sense.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#67
post #62

Question 1: is it possible to run AWS / Google cloud with a fixed pre-paid monthly rate? Like e.g. "give me the most webservers for 1000$ / Month plus a Database". Question 2: does exist some kind of optimization-per-usecase service for such a fixed cost scenario? E.g. "Optimize for Website" or "Optimize for Database" and you can download a Terraform file?

AWS has provisioned versions of many services, which cost less upfront, but are longer term contracts.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#68
post #62

Question 1: is it possible to run AWS / Google cloud with a fixed pre-paid monthly rate? Like e.g. "give me the most webservers for 1000$ / Month plus a Database". Question 2: does exist some kind of optimization-per-usecase service for such a fixed cost scenario? E.g. "Optimize for Website" or "Optimize for Database" and you can download a Terraform file?

Not that I know of for either (at least for AWS).

AWS lets you provision some service though (I think DynamoDB has three different ways to be provisioned now) but it's not per use-case, it's based on what you think your needs are.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#69

How many would say this normally? I.e., what's the baseline? Meanwhile, how many are giving their teams the resources (i.e., people) necessary to do the analytics on the bill required to find & cut costs? Every cloud I've worked with has been terrible at billing in a way that could be reasonable investigated. At one point we literally pulled all the billing data into a SQLite database. (And that was a great idea, as…

> Every cloud I've worked with has been terrible at billing in a way that could be reasonable investigated.

Terrible for who? You or the cloud provider? I'm a bit of a worrier (and not a perfect coder), so infinite scalability with utility billing combined with a mistake on my part could result in an epic bill. All I'll say is that I won't practice cloud development on my own credit card.

Re: 81% of IT teams directed to reduce or halt cloud spending

#70

How many would say this normally? I.e., what's the baseline? Meanwhile, how many are giving their teams the resources (i.e., people) necessary to do the analytics on the bill required to find & cut costs? Every cloud I've worked with has been terrible at billing in a way that could be reasonable investigated. At one point we literally pulled all the billing data into a SQLite database. (And that was a great idea, as…

But how does it take a over week to answer the question?

In my experience it takes azure support over a week to answer any question. Unless the question happens to be which person without a substantial update is taking over the case. You’ll get lots and lots of those answers.

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