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Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

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Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#61

Post by ignoramous »

ozzythecat wrote: post #10
HyperSane wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an incredibly stupid way to run a company.

It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. If you can do it at scale without damaging the company’s reputation, you’ve won the lottery. You make big promises to employees, maybe give a carrot to a very select few. Everyone else will either accept the long hours and grueling culture or they’ll leave, and if they leave, they’ll go before their RSU compensation vests. So the other thing you do is weigh compensation heavily…

> It's actually not stupid. It’s genius.

Not if the secret's out, one would imagine?

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#62

Post by ignoramous »

LatteLazy wrote: post #23

I'm always amazed how little people know about how companies operate. Amazon does the same thing as many many companies and is treated as news. People are shocked that they are profit seeking, that they do barely legal but legal things, that they don't actively knowingly pay their workers more than they have to etc.

> Amazon does the same thing as many many companies and is treated as news.

Yes, and that's because of its scale and size.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#63

Post by emptysongglass »

ignoramous wrote: post #60
nivenkos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

> Same for us Europoors. Mate, it isn't quite nearly the same for Europeans.

It is. We're getting paid peanuts compared to our American counterparts and we do the same work. What's worse is we pay higher taxes. The only way this changes is by European tech workers standing together and demanding matched salaries.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#64

Post by Danieru »

ignoramous wrote: post #61
ozzythecat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. If you can do it at scale without damaging the company’s reputation, you’ve won the lottery. You make big promises to employees, maybe give a carrot to a very select few. Everyone else will either accept the long hours and grueling culture or they’ll leave, and if they leave, they’ll go before their RSU compensation vests. So the other thing you do is weigh compensation heavily…

> It's actually not stupid. It’s genius. Not if the secret's out, one would imagine?

The secret has been out for over a decade. Yet Amazon still get new hires.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#65

Post by edwnj »

ozzythecat wrote: post #6

> The same Times investigation reported the company “intentionally limited upward mobility for hourly workers,” according to David Niekerk, a former Amazon HR Vice President. It’s not just for hourly workers. I was actively coached on holding promotions as a carrot. My leadership team would commit to unrealistic dates, taking input and estimates from dev teams but hand wave it. Amazon applies pressure on L7 and L6 so…

lol this is hilarious. We are talking about the highest paid people in the world here.. "sweat shop"

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#66

Post by jokethrowaway »

emptysongglass wrote: post #63
ignoramous wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same for us Europoors. Mate, it isn't quite nearly the same for Europeans.

It is. We're getting paid peanuts compared to our American counterparts and we do the same work . What's worse is we pay higher taxes. The only way this changes is by European tech workers standing together and demanding matched salaries.

In terms of compensation maybe (I'd say Indians in USA generally make more than EU devs), but you don't fear being fired and deported.

That said, Russian and Chinese developers had the same happening in companies in the UK.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#67

Post by philjohn »

nivenkos wrote: post #41
satellites wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

That's ridiculous - that's 11am for them, well within their work day, but well outside yours.

I'm lucky that we have a "We'll dial into meetings slightly earlier, if you can dial in slightly later" entente and so it's rare for meetings with west coast to go past 18:00 GMT.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#68

Post by philjohn »

emptysongglass wrote: post #63
ignoramous wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same for us Europoors. Mate, it isn't quite nearly the same for Europeans.

It is. We're getting paid peanuts compared to our American counterparts and we do the same work . What's worse is we pay higher taxes. The only way this changes is by European tech workers standing together and demanding matched salaries.

But the flip side is you don't have to save $,000s for your kids college tuition, generally much lower property tax and cheaper healthcare.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#69

Post by soulofmischief »

emptysongglass wrote: post #63
ignoramous wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same for us Europoors. Mate, it isn't quite nearly the same for Europeans.

It is. We're getting paid peanuts compared to our American counterparts and we do the same work . What's worse is we pay higher taxes. The only way this changes is by European tech workers standing together and demanding matched salaries.

The point is that Indian workers are held hostage due to threat of deportation / returning home. European remote workers still live at home and have much more job mobility.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#70

Post by dendriti »

pembrook wrote: post #43
Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #25

I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff. I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.

Not shopping at Amazon because the company is big enough to get media attention is a bit silly. Do you know what the working conditions are like at any of the million non-Amazon warehouses? Of course not, there’s no media attention for Bob’s fulfillment in Wichita, Kansas. Here’s the truth: your friendly neighborhood warehouse down the street likely pays its employees far less, with far worse benefits, less safe faci…

Right. Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and "voting with your wallet" is capitalist bullshit. They love to trot that one out, to make real change impossible.
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