61–70 of 97 posts
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What motivation could we have? Most British people you talk to on the internet are distinctly unhappy about Brexit and, if anything, are motivated to talk up the single market
> Most British people you talk to on the internet are distinctly unhappy about Brexit Most voted for it. If you're in a vacuum chamber that's your problem.
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France hasn't really benefited much. Italy has been the talking point for a long time and rightly so for the amount of debt plus the chronic political instability, but France is very much on a similar decline path. Edit: cheap Russian gas + high productivity + political stability + undervalued currency (the Deutsche mark would have been way stronger than the euro) is what fueled German dominance in Europe. Italy/Fran…
France has a talent for self-harm although they are not the only ones. Ultimately, Germany succeeded better because they acted better and more productively.
>President François Mitterrand argued for the single currency because he hoped to bolster French influence in an EU that would otherwise fall under the sway of a unified Germany
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2012/11/17/the-time-bomb-a...
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The Latin block (Southern Europe??) countries joined the euro to cut their interest rates, and that happened. The periphery is poor because it has been ruled by embarrassing governments for decades.
The periphery is and will always be poor because of cultural problems. People make the politicians, not the other way around.
People governed by politicians with suboptimal characteristics don't necessarily get to make decisions with perfect information, or to enjoy a voting system where votes have equal weight and reflect popular sentiment.
A sufficiently corrupt system can self-sustain for many years. With enough indirection and few votes, people have correspondingly increasingly limited input into their political decisions (or the indirect decisions of their representants).
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My wife speaks Spanish fluently and we often travel to Spain. Spain as such may not be exactly poor, but quite a lot of people are living in very subpar conditions. Andalusia in particular has a lot of visibly poor natives. Even African migrants do not want to stay there and if they manage to cross the Strait of Gibraltar, they immediately travel north to France/Britain/Germany.
Oh please. Thats like saying california is poor because san francisco has homeless people. Just because people dont drive fancy cars or homes arent refurbished in a region where it rarely rains it doesnt mean they are poor. Even east eu is rich compared to most of the world. I agree with you on slow growth but eu countries are anything but poor. Mismanaged yes. Poor not so much.
Comparisons to the rest of the world are misleading. Being better off than Algeria or Brazil isn't that much of a result. Spanish people naturally compare themselves to other Europeans and the gap between the relative riches of Spain and, say, (West) Germany or Switzerland, is pretty visible. So is the fact that the gap does not seem to be closing, rather the other way round.
I agree that mismanagement is a huge part of the problem, and that it is mostly domestic. For one, the political parties seem to be enormously corrupt, on par with the Balkans.
If I had one euro for every time The Economist has said that the Euro/EU were wobbly/breaking/etc I could balance Liz Truss'es budget and have money left for some fish'n'chips.
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Go to Sevilla or Malaga and look around. Houses have old facades, people drive old cars, pavements have been last repaved 20 years ago and meeting a highly educated beggar is a common occurrence. That is not how a wealthy community looks like. Spanish economy may be nominally big, but random folk in the streets do not seem well off. The contrast to, say, Austria or Denmark, where most of the population seems to live…
Nurses are underpaid everywhere in europe. Its a common issue with public healthcare systems.
That would be unthinkable some 20-25 years ago. Spain back then was, relatively taken, much richer than any post-Communist country and your living standard would have gone measurably down if you moved from Spain to Czechia.
Another round of blaming Germany! I guess after the Nord Stream sabotage they need another issue. The whole of Europe took gas from Russia, but Nord Stream was the incarnation of evil. The press was full of Nord Stream articles and never mentioned the other pipelines. Poland took gas well into May 2022, and only stopped after Russia demanded payment in rubles. The Yamal pipeline is still standing. Europe still gets R…
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Nurses are underpaid everywhere in europe. Its a common issue with public healthcare systems.
True, but at this point the only thing that prevents her from moving to Czechia to make better money is the fact that her son likes Madrid and she does not want to uproot him. That would be unthinkable some 20-25 years ago. Spain back then was, relatively taken, much richer than any post-Communist country and your living standard would have gone measurably down if you moved from Spain to Czechia.
But that still doesnt mean Spain is poor. It just means other countries progressed. And many times its the progress and growth that matters as opposed to stagnation which feels bad. The reason i mentioned that eu countries are richer than others is to put things into perspective.
Europeans are used to growth and thats the issue, there isnt any as of recently. Its just germany flouting its economic dick in everyone’s face while the rest of the eu has to follow rules that dont benefit them.
“In case anyone felt their nose insufficiently rubbed in German success” All good things come to an end. Also it feels like if the weather will suck tomorrow it will be blamed on germany. Where are the other countries in all this? Taking a nap?
Germany was a huge winner from introduction of the Euro. Some other countries, especially the Latin bloc, cannot cope with the common currency. (Ironically, it was the German economists who used to be very skeptical against the common currency and were loud about it.) At the end of the day, the single market will only be popular if growth and prosperity are shared across the continent. If the economic periphery plagu…
But in the common market with a shared currency they are able to keep the cost of their goods artificially low due to other countries absorbing the demand for the currency.
So where Germany wins, you can guess that other countries lose.
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Oh please. Thats like saying california is poor because san francisco has homeless people. Just because people dont drive fancy cars or homes arent refurbished in a region where it rarely rains it doesnt mean they are poor. Even east eu is rich compared to most of the world. I agree with you on slow growth but eu countries are anything but poor. Mismanaged yes. Poor not so much.
I am not sure if it has anything to do with rain. Israel does not have much rain either and homes look much better there. And when we speak to the locals in Spain, their typical complaint is that they struggle to make the ends meet. "I wasn't on a vacation for seven years." - "I think twice before taking a RENFE train even though it is twice as fast as a bus." - "Kids won't probably be getting new laptops ever." etc.…
Also most germans dont own the properties they live in and their savings would last enough for maybe a month.
Anyway the idea is that there are issues everywhere in europe you just need keep your eyes wide open. The solution is policies that benefit everyone.
Also i doubt spanish politicians are that corrupt. Or indeed any within the eu. There is corruption in the eu and even germany but nowhere near that level.