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Take a break

robinrendle.com

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Re: Take a break

#61

Post by tomrod »

wildrhythms wrote: post #28
thenerdhead wrote: post #25

On top of taking regular breaks, I think we should also work slower. Burnout is a scary place to be in. While the news calls it “quiet quitting”, I think many people are simply burnt out from the last few years of world conditions and add on the rubber band effect of everything going back to “normal”. It’s just too much change in a short amount of time. I wrote a book about this topic when I was in a state of burnout…

I work with a project manager who is obsessed with deadlines. "Hey do you have an update? When do you think it will be done? Hey, the deadline is really close!" They maintain a complicated Gantt chart. What happens when we miss the deadline? Nothing really, our updates aren't on a fixed timeline, and our users are very happy with our product today. Everything is artificial.

I wonder whether you've ever asked the PM what happens when a deadline is missed? It may be he or she is shielding you from consequences and impacts you're unaware of, hence the anxiety. I had a PM act this way during on one of the projects in my department for awhile and they were a mess. Finally I requested they let the team absorb the impact instead of the PM handling everything. While fortunately is was recoverable, it was definitely a learning experience for the team.

Re: Take a break

#63

Post by almost_usual »

thenerdhead wrote: post #25

On top of taking regular breaks, I think we should also work slower. Burnout is a scary place to be in. While the news calls it “quiet quitting”, I think many people are simply burnt out from the last few years of world conditions and add on the rubber band effect of everything going back to “normal”. It’s just too much change in a short amount of time. I wrote a book about this topic when I was in a state of burnout…

There will always be something and if you’re known for getting work done fast then.. you’re rewarded with more work.

Re: Take a break

#64

Post by almost_usual »

wildrhythms wrote: post #28
thenerdhead wrote: post #25

On top of taking regular breaks, I think we should also work slower. Burnout is a scary place to be in. While the news calls it “quiet quitting”, I think many people are simply burnt out from the last few years of world conditions and add on the rubber band effect of everything going back to “normal”. It’s just too much change in a short amount of time. I wrote a book about this topic when I was in a state of burnout…

I work with a project manager who is obsessed with deadlines. "Hey do you have an update? When do you think it will be done? Hey, the deadline is really close!" They maintain a complicated Gantt chart. What happens when we miss the deadline? Nothing really, our updates aren't on a fixed timeline, and our users are very happy with our product today. Everything is artificial.

Sounds like they have anxiety because the project is beyond their control so to cope they micromanage.

Re: Take a break

#65

Post by throwaway394875 »

badpun wrote: post #47
ArjenM wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twenty years, two months into the second burn out on top of long term depression. I'm going bankrupt for a second time because I can't work 100% anymore. I'm yet to find a psychiatrist. Wish I could have a break sometimes.

You don't have any savings after 20 years of working? What happened?

Not the person you're replying to, but I can relate to them. I've been working more than 20 years and currently have negative net worth. Shitty clothes, no car, no home, almost no pension, child on the way and I don't even know where we're going to live.

Being entrepreneurial and bootstrap-minded with big, bold visions can go poorly.

Doubly so when unexpected caring responsibilities appear in your life. Grief when you lose someone you love dearly, takes it out of you too. Add some clients who never paid. Volunteering on big projects to make a better world as well as help my own plans, only to find it being an infinite time sink. During the height of pandemic issues in 2020, I completely ran out of cash, hit the limit of my already credit-limit-hacked credit cards, and couldn't afford rent or food for a while. A rent deferral from the landlord, which I still had to pay back, helped, as did community food providers during lockdown.

If you worked with me, you'd probably consider me a highly skilled programmer among other things. I have a reasonably impressive résumé. It's not that I can't earn well, indeed I received a $350k plus equity offer a few months ago, which sadly was retracted on the day I was due to start due to the company's business changing direction. 1 year at that job would have set me up for years. Ah well.

And yet, homelessness isn't far away if I don't get another job soon. I haven't overspent either, I have next to nothing in the form of material wealth, and haven't been on a proper vacation in over a decade.

I'm always a bit irked when I see here on HN people suggesting that it's impossible to end up poor if you're a skilled developer. Shit happens, despite the potential for earning well.

Re: Take a break

#66

Post by almost_usual »

nik736 wrote: post #18
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

I am not sure about that. There are always tasks that can be done without having to think too much about it. The more time you put into them, the more of those small tasks you can complete. I wouldn't start building new features or change important parts of the code base after a 10hr day for sure, but there is a lot more that can't "break everything".

The problem is there will always be small tasks and those tasks might actually delay longer more important tasks. At some point you need to prioritize what is most important with your time.

If you’re always grinding small tasks to make time for a larger task that too will burn you out.

Re: Take a break

#68

Post by almost_usual »

gubernation wrote: post #35
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

So the solution is to figure out how to put in long hours effectively, not to throw it away. That's an excuse. Do you want to be rich, or not?

Rich people start their own companies, if you work long hours and do that then I guess it might be worth it.

It’s unlikely you’ll get rich grinding tasks for someone else.

Re: Take a break

#69

Post by duncan-donuts »

CalRobert wrote: post #41
greymalik wrote: post #14

> small hurdles spike my anxiety, my anger flares at the slightest confrontation, I notice fewer jokes, fewer attempts on my part to make people laugh. My memory goes to all hell too and I can’t seem to concentrate on prolonged amounts of anything. Books fall off my radar, I stop listening to music. My phone is in my hand at all times, scrolly-anxiety-inducing apps become impossible to avoid. This describes me perfec…

I wish I'd understood the degree to which small children destroy you. The amount of focus time you get falls by 90%+, you sleep horribly every night without fail, and you spend every quiet moment waiting for one of them to start screaming because they found some new and ingenious way to hurt themself. Maybe a lot of that was having a 1-3 and 3-5 year old wfh during covid, but I feel like I'm broken ever since.

Nah my kids broke me before Covid. Covid just made it harder. Obviously ymmv but your kids breaking you happens without it without a pandemic.

Re: Take a break

#70

Post by osigurdson »

I took a 3 month sabbatical to do some travelling at one point. My productivity when I came back was completely off the charts. I'd recommend it to anyone.
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