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Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

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Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#61
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't move at or above the posted speed limit, let others pass. It's as simple as that. You're not entitled to impede others. All users of the road are entitled to move at the speed limit, when there there is no problem ahead such as an accident, congestion, obstruction or construction. If you're not yourself impeded by such a predicament, and have an open road in front of you, you have no right to arbitrarily…

Your reductionist view gives no room for safe cycling in most cities. It requires nothing of the drivers and accomodations from everyone else. Why is that? Cars haven’t even been common for 100 years. Before they came along, we didn’t even need speed limits, and vehicles of different kinds could occupy the streets together. Now it’s all just cars. It doesn’t have to be that way, and in some parts of the world it isn’…

The reductionist view comes from any traffic code in the developed world. The traffic codes defines various entites like "highway", "vehicle" and so forth, which are the names of the parts (the whole having been reduced to those parts). It lays out numerous rules, and the good functioning behavior of the system is supposed to arise from those parts behaving according to the rules.

Cycling simply is not safe without investment in safe cycling infrastructure. It's a risk-taking activity like mountain climbing and skydiving.

The cyclist do a degree (perhaps an excessive one) relies on trust in the behavior of motor vehicles. The rest of it is up to the cyclist and their choices: which way to go, at what times, in what manner, helmet or not, mirrors or not, condition of bike, crappy rim brakes in wet weather or discs, etc.

Few of us here remember a world without cars; it's just a dream of the past. It's not realistic to return large urban areas to car-free status. At least not instantly. Cars are becoming electric, free of exhaust gases and engine noise. Thus certain arguments against keeping them out of cities are weakening.

It's also not realistic to just slow down traffic to match the slowest pedaler on every route; that is simply not a viable cycling safety plan. People have places to go. For most people, communting is pure overhead. They would rather be at their destination already doing something else.

More and more electrified bicycles are appearing. These can easily keep up with city traffic. They are changing/confusing driver perceptions of what a bicycle can do. Drivers are going to be less patient with motorless cyclists due to being accustomed to motorized cyclists. They will also make poor time/distance judgments due to the variation in capability. A driver who thinks he can pass a cyclist like the cyclist is standing still will miscalculate if that cyclist has a motor and is rapidly accelerating.

Electric bicycles are a threat to cyclists, and a threat which follows them right into safe cycling infrastructure. Just when you have escaped the cars and are pedaling away in a dedicated bicycle path, you're faced with marauding yahoos on what are de facto motorcycles, easily capable of going 50 km/h or more. Cycling infrastructure is still being planned for pedal bicycles, in terms of the dimensions of the lanes and whatnot. You need full roads, if the bicycles are motorized.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm weary of repeating myself, but do so nonetheless, since I can't know if you have read my former comments about this, or not. So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why?…

There's no need to repeat all this. You clearly know by now you are an outlier and your history adds nothing to the topic of mixed car and bike traffic. Your humblebrag about your lived experience DOES NOT MEAN that choeger's "about 30km/h" is indeed anywhere near the right speed for the large majority of cyclists. Even in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen where it's flat, a lot of people do daily bike commutes, a…

> ...adds nothing...

That depends on ones point of view I guess. Besides that I don't want to add. I'd favour substracting cars, because they are like the plague, a nuisance, and loud if going fast enough, no matter if ICE or BEV.

Furthermore I'm thinking of anybody thinking of 30kph as absurdly fast for a city bike as an outlier, even if they are the majority.

That is not my world, LOL :-)

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#63
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Wherever bicycles and cars share the same routes, at roughly the same speed, they should share the same roads - at a speed that is safe for everyone, so about 30km/h. For routes and speeds that are different (highways), roads should be separated.

30 kph is absurdly fast for city bikes and really slow for cars on any long stretch of road. So it's only relevant for like 1% of roads that are very windy and only sport cyclists go.

But 20kph is absolutely doable for even several kilometers. A speed difference of 10kph ain't that problematic. The idea shouldn't be to create the perfect bicycle town, but to reconcile different modes of transportation. A cyclist that doesn't want to travel at 20-30kph can, IMO, share a space with pedestrians at a speed of about 10kph or less.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#64
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wholehearted second this. The best advice to bikers who aren't traveling at kids speeds is "take the lane". Prevents dooring and being run off the road. My only take is that I wouldn't be comfortable doing this if I didn't have proper lighting (front headlamp + Garmin Navia rear radar is huge confidence boost) and comfort in demanding drivers acknowledge my presence.

Garmin Varia radar you mean?

Yes :) Fantastic device, but not a memorable brand name for me.
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