So plugging in the car whenever it's parked and letting the grid decide when to charge it is the way to go?
Works for thermostats shedding AC loads on hot days for consumers who have opted in.
Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
61–70 of 394 posts
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
So electric car owners need to just cover all the battery wear out of their own pockets? Wouldn't that make electric cars even more expensive since battery replacement will be needed more often?
Batteries are lasting far longer than anticipated. Anecdotally, I have fast DC charged my 2018 Model S (100kw pack) for the majority of the 100k miles I’ve put on the car, and only have 7% battery degradation. Others are seeing similar longevity well into hundreds of thousands of miles. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32758881 https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric... https://cleantechnica.…
That doesn't really matter. If you own a resource, and I utilize it, are you going to let me do so without compensating you in some fashion? If so I'll take you up on that offer.
I have no problems with encouraging people to charge at certain times. Using personal batteries for energy storage and draw without any compensation however seems to cross a line.
Your argument seems to me like justifying petty theft because in the end it doesn't really affect the store owner.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#63>We're doing it wrong, according to a new Stanford study Wrong according to what metric? Cost? Raw efficiency? A lot of people are more than willing to give up efficiency so that they don't have to actually worry about finding a station during the day. To say that something is just outright "wrong" based on their personal preference of priorities comes off as unhelpful to me. The solution is simple. Make electricity…
>> you just use natural market forces and the problem fixes itself We're talking about electric vehicles here. There has already been massive interference in the market forces through both push and pull mechanisms - push would be things like outlawing internal combustion engines going forward, pull would be huge subsidies for electric vehicles. It's pretty late in the game to say, "Hey! let's just use natural market…
I think you're conflating two separate markets; there can be as many subsidies or taxes added to buying an EV as you want, but the "what time do I charge my car" problem is an electricity market problem, not a car market problem.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#64EV’s are only a solution as far as renewable energy can keep up with electricity demands. And that doesn’t appear to be the case right now. Coupled with the mining of minerals, violent venting of batteries, and non-recyclable/non disposable nature of the batteries it’s not obvious that EV’s are more environmentally friendly.
It is very easy to keep up expanding renewable energy with the ramp up of electric cars. In Germany (which is pretty far north), about 10 solar panels are enough to cover one cars electric needs.
And it is not true, that batteries are non-recyclable. Currently, they can be recycled to about 95% and of course this is cheaper than to mine the minerals for a new battery and also saves a lot of energy. It is just that it will quite a few more years before we need much recycling capacity, as the bulk of the batteries will live at least 10 to 15 years.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Charge at work.
But how many work areas have a charging station available easily?
The term "charging station" is hinting at a too big infrastructure. All you need is a power outlet per car. If the car parks for 8 to 9 hours, you don't need a huge amount of power to recharge it.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#66This article does a poor job of explaining why there is going to be a problem and relaying the point of the study.
To model the grid and power infrastructure into the future, assumptions must be made about where the power is derived.
The article fails to provide the basic factors contributing to the problem, even though the study itself does a fine job.
So California wants to legislate electric cars. That means higher demand in a shorter period of time. Meanwhile Calofornia wants to legislate 'clean' or 'green' energy production. If that's a design limitation then the outcome is a shift away from what is the normal situation we face with energy use today.
Energy use at night with a highly solar derived power system requires significant storage and efficiency loss. Charging all of California's electric cars in 2035 will be a demand that far surpasses anything seen today. These things that we see causing rolling black outs and brown outs, like AC use spikes in summer will be a blip compared to the consistent vehicle charging demand.
Interesting, though, the electric vehicle adoption basically negates the storage problem if a parallel infrastructure of charge back from homes at night is implemented. Charge your car at work in the sun and use it to power your home at night.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#67What’s the alternative? Not like you can charge your EV at home when you’re working when…you’re at work
Work from home.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#68Fire risks are also much greater at night if you are charging a BEV in your house while asleep. Far safer to charge in an open area preferably away from other vehicles and stuctures. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as...
The press release you linked to is about cars catching fire after they crash.
Can you give a source for how many cars catch fire spontaneously when they're stationary and charging?
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The solution is simple. Make electricity cheaper when it's more available From the parts of the world I come from the majority of people are vehemently opposed to time of use pricing. Because that's when they use it most. They and their political representatives would much prefer to keep taking from those who consume in off-peak rather than fix the underlying mechanism.
time-of-use is also cognitive load that can cause anxiety
Yeah it is. I hate having to have a process in my brain thinking about optimizing everything. So I bought solar panels and batteries. Now I no longer care. The grid can keep getting more expensive and less reliable without causing me grief.
Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Batteries are lasting far longer than anticipated. Anecdotally, I have fast DC charged my 2018 Model S (100kw pack) for the majority of the 100k miles I’ve put on the car, and only have 7% battery degradation. Others are seeing similar longevity well into hundreds of thousands of miles. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32758881 https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric... https://cleantechnica.…
That doesn't really matter. If you own a resource, and I utilize it, are you going to let me do so without compensating you in some fashion? If so I'll take you up on that offer. I have no problems with encouraging people to charge at certain times. Using personal batteries for energy storage and draw without any compensation however seems to cross a line. Your argument seems to me like justifying petty theft because…
I think your position comes from a lack of understanding of energy markets and pricing mechanisms. Powerwall owners are paid roughly $2/kwh when called upon to support the grid in California. Compensation is absolutely available for discharging and charging at specific times.
If you’ll charge me a fraction of the cost to charge off peak or when there are excess renewables on the grid, and you’ll pay a premium to pull that power back if the car is parked and I can set a minimum state of charge to maintain, yeah, I’ll take that deal any day. I’ll come out ahead in almost all cases based on EV battery longevity.