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We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

erikmcclure.com

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Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#61

Post by pdimitar »

jvanderbot wrote: post #44
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36

How about we move to external only GPUs with huge connectors? If GPUs are half the size, power consumption and price of a PC now, they might as well be a separate device. As a bonus the rest of the motherboard & PCs actually get much smaller. A PC without any spinning disks could conceivably just be the size of a NUC by default, something you can travel with when you don't need the beefy GPU.

You can easily buy a NUC ECE (size of a graphics card) and use a pcie cable to connect to an actual card. This is my plan for my next machine.

How would that work? I admit I never even thought of PCIe cables, thought it was always just a physical slot you have to put stuff in.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#62

Post by spartanatreyu »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36

How about we move to external only GPUs with huge connectors? If GPUs are half the size, power consumption and price of a PC now, they might as well be a separate device. As a bonus the rest of the motherboard & PCs actually get much smaller. A PC without any spinning disks could conceivably just be the size of a NUC by default, something you can travel with when you don't need the beefy GPU.

The most expensive part of GPU operation (power-wise) isn't computation, it's actually moving information around.

Moving the GPU further away from the CPU and storage is going to lead to worse latency and power requirements.

Over the next 10-15 years, we'll probably see CPU+GPU packages become mainstream instead of CPU (with basic integrated graphics) and a separate GPU.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#64

Post by somat »

RL_Quine wrote: post #27
dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

Yeah, I have a motherboard with a bent out of shape port because of the weight of the card in it. My current desktop has a sag of easily half an inch at the end of the card and it’s not even a particularly large one by current standards. The ATX spec obviously wasn’t designed with GPUs this heavy and this power hungry.

historically cases had a bracket at the front to support full length cards. I even remember I once had a reference amd card that had an odd extension so that it would be supported by the forward full length brackets.

I have to admit I have not seen that front bracket for a long time. some server chassis have a bar across the top to support large cards. this would bet great except gfx card manufacturers like to exceed the pci spec for height. that bar had to be removed on my last two builds. now days I just put my case horizontal and pray.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#65

Post by pdimitar »

eigenspace wrote: post #25
dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

> 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? I have a MSI RTX 3070 2 fan model. It hasn't damaged my PCI-E slot (I think), but it's weight and sag causes some bending that now makes it so that my fan bearing makes a loud noise if spun up high. My solution has been to turn my PC case so the motherboard is parallel to the ground and the GPU sticks straight up, eliminating…

Yeah, I do that for a long time. Had a few accidents where I panicked until it turned out the card was just sagging and the PCIe connection was being stopped.

After it happened the 3rd time I just cleaned up a little space and put the PC lying on its side. Zero problems since then.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#66

Post by jacooper »

pubby wrote: post #56
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36

How about we move to external only GPUs with huge connectors? If GPUs are half the size, power consumption and price of a PC now, they might as well be a separate device. As a bonus the rest of the motherboard & PCs actually get much smaller. A PC without any spinning disks could conceivably just be the size of a NUC by default, something you can travel with when you don't need the beefy GPU.

I wonder how far that connection could be before it stops working. Probably not much!

Here is an LTT video about how many PCI-E extensions one can daisychain without problems.

The limit is around 3 meters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5xvwPa3r7M

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#67

Post by nighthawk454 »

pdimitar wrote: post #61
jvanderbot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily buy a NUC ECE (size of a graphics card) and use a pcie cable to connect to an actual card. This is my plan for my next machine.

How would that work? I admit I never even thought of PCIe cables, thought it was always just a physical slot you have to put stuff in.

there are PCIe riser cables that you can imagine as an extension cord for a PCIe slot. they're popular in some thin server chassis or in miniITX builds where the form factor dictates the GPU must be in a certain orientation to fit.

there's also the method of external GPUs via Thunderbolt (which carries PCIe) that is more practical for putting a GPU in an entirely separate enclosure

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#68

Post by bmicraft »

jacooper wrote: post #66
pubby wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how far that connection could be before it stops working. Probably not much!

Here is an LTT video about how many PCI-E extensions one can daisychain without problems. The limit is around 3 meters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5xvwPa3r7M

One should note that it will works way worse with higher pcie versions of today

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#69

Post by somat »

winkeltripel wrote: post #23

Could we just follow the atx spec? There is a maximum length for expansion cards, and at that end there are optional supports. These are in servers already. Just start using all that case volume to support the GPU.

Cheers, bravo, exactly what I wanted to say. However just to be pedantic, I just read the atx spec to find this exact information and it is not there. I suspect the expansion card dimensions are in the pci spec.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#70

Post by MBCook »

dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

My proposal isn’t too different. Move the one ultra-fast PCIe slot to the top of the motherboard. It would be mounted so the GPU plugs in parallel to the motherboard, on the same plane, above the motherboard on a tower case. The few other PCIe slots that exist can stay at the bottom.

Only downside is the case has to be taller. Not sure if that would be considered a problem or not.

This doesn’t really help dual GPU setups, but those have never been common. I don’t have a good solution there. I guess you’re back to some variation of the riser idea.

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