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Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

cturt.github.io

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Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#61

Post by pdntspa »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #47
thrdbndndn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that piracy may not necessarily hurt dev in term of income. But I feel a few other things always seem to be left out in the discussion about this topic. 1) it is totally unfair for the honest buyers if other people can get it for free in an "illegal" way. 2) The IP holders may simply don't want people to get there work for free, irrespective of the fact "they are not going to buy it anyway!". I've seen…

> 1) it is totally unfair for the honest buyers if other people can get it for free in an "illegal" way. I have never, ever seen anyone make that argument. How would that even work? "I paid fof this Smart TV. Then I heard about a massive shoplifting operation that took place on the store I bought it from. Damn! Why did I have to pay when those thiefs got many for free!". Doesn't hold up. > 2) The IP holders may simpl…

We need to get past this idea that IP holders have any say over their work once it is in the hands of the public. Information wants to be free!

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#62

Post by VanTheBrand »

Sunspark wrote: post #57
joshschreuder wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned in the article, it's sacred to the highest tier of PlayStation's new subscription service, so they won't remove it.

A service can change at any time. OtherOS came with the system in the box, and Sony tore it out after consumers had already purchased the system. A subscription service, they can just end it and refund people's money and call it a day. It's absolutely not set in stone. Unless they decide the revenue from the highest tier is worth leaving it in place. To be determined.

It’s fundamental to their subscription strategy. I would happily bet you $10,000 they don’t pull PS2 support in response to this.

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#63

Post by numpad0 »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #47
thrdbndndn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that piracy may not necessarily hurt dev in term of income. But I feel a few other things always seem to be left out in the discussion about this topic. 1) it is totally unfair for the honest buyers if other people can get it for free in an "illegal" way. 2) The IP holders may simply don't want people to get there work for free, irrespective of the fact "they are not going to buy it anyway!". I've seen…

> 1) it is totally unfair for the honest buyers if other people can get it for free in an "illegal" way. I have never, ever seen anyone make that argument. How would that even work? "I paid fof this Smart TV. Then I heard about a massive shoplifting operation that took place on the store I bought it from. Damn! Why did I have to pay when those thiefs got many for free!". Doesn't hold up. > 2) The IP holders may simpl…

This feel familiar to me, I think this is the thinking used mainly by music and video DRM implementers. An arcane one, in the sense that it is not consistent with modern liberal capitalism, that it argues the society as a whole and equalities/fairnesses within absolutely prioritizes over economical profits.

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#64

Post by numpad0 »

pdntspa wrote: post #61
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) it is totally unfair for the honest buyers if other people can get it for free in an "illegal" way. I have never, ever seen anyone make that argument. How would that even work? "I paid fof this Smart TV. Then I heard about a massive shoplifting operation that took place on the store I bought it from. Damn! Why did I have to pay when those thiefs got many for free!". Doesn't hold up. > 2) The IP holders may simpl…

We need to get past this idea that IP holders have any say over their work once it is in the hands of the public. Information wants to be free!

From the Berne Convention, Article 6bis, Moral Rights:

> (1) Independently of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work, which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.

Ref: https://wipolex.wipo.int/en/text/283698

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#65

Post by aidenn0 »

babypuncher wrote: post #13
lostgame wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the PS2 succeeded so massively is that it was an affordable DVD player alone , IIRC at the time you could buy a DVD player for like $199 or a PS2 for $299. It was a no brainer for any family looking to either replace their console or seek to upgrade to DVD - something which was a way bigger deal than the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray.

> something which was a way bigger deal than the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray. I always find that interesting, because to my eyes the quality jump from DVD to Blu-Ray is the biggest we've ever seen (and likely ever will see) in home video formats, way bigger than the move from VHS to DVD. I don't think DVD has aged particularly well, especially in a world of non-interlaced digital flat panel displays. A properly ma…

While there are some terrible masters, a decent one holds it up well; there are plenty of DVDs that play at 16:9 480p cleanly, and a similarly letterboxed VHS might have been 170p with lots of chroma noise.

If S-VHS had ever caught on for commercial releases, then the jump might have been smaller, but a VHS was visibly worse even on screens of the time, and screens were getting bigger pretty fast back then.

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#66

Post by dizhn »

Cyph0n wrote: post #44
1970-01-01 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS2 was dominant because it had great games, backward compatibility (for awhile) and was also a DVD player. The piracy angle didn't affect sales, despite what Sony says.

You underestimate the impact of piracy in developing countries. It’s true that almost no one bought games at full price, so Sony was only seeing unit sales. However, once these countries developed further and the people who grew up with PS consoles started to make more money, guess which consoles and games these people decided to buy? Hint: it wasn’t Xbox! Long story short, easy access to piracy was a gateway to futu…

I agree with what you're saying but I would not exclude Xbox. They were also hacked to play ripped games.

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#67

Post by darren_ »

Sunspark wrote: post #53

I wonder if Sony is now going to rip out the PS2 emulator. They've removed features before. They tore OtherOS out of the PS3. I don't see PS2 compatibility as being sacred to the PS5.

The ars technica article about this has some additional info from the hacker about sony not really being able to do this:

"CTurt stressed to Ars that it would be nearly impossible for Sony to plug the hole that enables mast1c0re. That's because a version of the exploitable PS2 emulator in question is packaged with each available PS2-on-PS4 game rather than stored separately as a core part of the console operating system. [..] For physical PS2-on-PS4 discs, that means the exploit should continue to work as long as you refuse any online updates before playing. And for digital releases, even if the exploit is later patched out, there are methods to downgrade to a stored, exploitable version using proxy HTTP traffic from a local server."

so there isn't just a single PS2 emulator in the PS4/PS5's OS, it's a per-game emulator.

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#68

Post by morsch »

Cyph0n wrote: post #44
1970-01-01 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS2 was dominant because it had great games, backward compatibility (for awhile) and was also a DVD player. The piracy angle didn't affect sales, despite what Sony says.

You underestimate the impact of piracy in developing countries. It’s true that almost no one bought games at full price, so Sony was only seeing unit sales. However, once these countries developed further and the people who grew up with PS consoles started to make more money, guess which consoles and games these people decided to buy? Hint: it wasn’t Xbox! Long story short, easy access to piracy was a gateway to futu…

About 130 of 160 million PS2s were sold in North America, Europe and Japan. Developing countries don't appear to be a significant market for the console.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2_sales

Re: Hacking the PS4 / PS5 Through the PS2 Emulator

#69

Post by Aromasin »

dizhn wrote: post #66
Cyph0n wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You underestimate the impact of piracy in developing countries. It’s true that almost no one bought games at full price, so Sony was only seeing unit sales. However, once these countries developed further and the people who grew up with PS consoles started to make more money, guess which consoles and games these people decided to buy? Hint: it wasn’t Xbox! Long story short, easy access to piracy was a gateway to futu…

I agree with what you're saying but I would not exclude Xbox. They were also hacked to play ripped games.

I can echo that sentiment. My original xbox was chipped. As a hacky kid with no money, it was the only way I could play new games. Guess who went on to own every xbox generation for the next 10+ years?
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