Sure but pointing out $350k executive salaries as somehow lavish is strange. That seems low for an executive at one of the most important (or at least, most viewed) websites on the planet.
Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
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Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
$350k salaries _are_ lavish, though. It seems strange to me that people would argue otherwise.
In a sense they are, but comparable to executive salaries at companies with roughly comparable tech/services, those salaries are probably very low. Probably any tech company of note is paying "executives" far, far more than that, at least in the US.
They are all a bit over-the-top.
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#63Wikipedia is a very effective medium for reinforcing the spread of false information and as such will never be "broke".
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
$350k salaries _are_ lavish, though. It seems strange to me that people would argue otherwise.
I suppose they meant relatively speaking. Taking into account how massive of a project Wikipedia is and hence how much responsibility the position has.
In fact, I would argue that an executive at a small operation has more responsibility than one at a large operation.
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
$350k salaries _are_ lavish, though. It seems strange to me that people would argue otherwise.
Uh, what? SDEs with a few YOE are getting this no problem at top companies. Why wouldn't the CEO of the fifth biggest website on the internet?
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#66This is an extremely misleading take. Wikipedia had a really good year in 20-21, their most recent financial report. They took in $162 million, against an $111 million operating budget, and came out of the year with $240 million in assets.[1] So they had about half a year's surplus, and wound up with ~2 years worth of savings. And yes, that's a simplification, a good chunk of those assets are necessary to continue op…
They have an "$111 million operating budget", but that's because they've decided to spend money on lots of things other than "serve Wikipedia": https://wikimediafoundation.org/support/where-your-money-goe... Note that "Direct support to websites" includes things like designing and implementing more intuitive article editing UI, which while potentially worth it isn't the kind of "obviously we must do this" that keepin…
In particular, "32% direct support to communities" was seen as complete pie in the sky. 32% of $163M revenue would be $52 million.
But once you deduct the $68M salary bill and $6M in donation processing expenses from the $112M expenses total, you only have $38M left!
So how can 32% of revenue be "direct support to communities"??
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/1/1e/Wikim...
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#67Sure but pointing out $350k executive salaries as somehow lavish is strange. That seems low for an executive at one of the most important (or at least, most viewed) websites on the planet.
It's lower than total comp of senior engineers in the bay area, just to give a point of reference.
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google had a 2021 operating cash flow of $92B, and they've decided to spend money on lots of things that aren't "serving ads". And yet nobody complains.
No-one donates to Google, nor does it ask for donations.
Wellll that's an interesting topic in and of itself. But OK I get what you mean.
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have an "$111 million operating budget", but that's because they've decided to spend money on lots of things other than "serve Wikipedia": https://wikimediafoundation.org/support/where-your-money-goe... Note that "Direct support to websites" includes things like designing and implementing more intuitive article editing UI, which while potentially worth it isn't the kind of "obviously we must do this" that keepin…
That "Where Your Money Goes" overview was particularly derided by Wikipedians in the Village Pump poll. It's so fuzzy it could mean anything. In particular, "32% direct support to communities" was seen as complete pie in the sky. 32% of $163M revenue would be $52 million. But once you deduct the $68M salary bill and $6M in donation processing expenses from the $112M expenses total, you only have $38M left! So how can…
Re: Once again so many people are led to think Wikipedia is broke and must be saved
#70The reason Wikipedia is so important is because a project like this could likely never be created again from scratch in our current times. It is a relic from a kinder past, that can still serve for generations to come if we take care of it. It will be a dark day for humanity when Wikipedia shuts down for good. Just donate, they don’t even ask for much. $5 or $10 is enough for your part.
The issue is that in the world we live in every organization has as its primary goal to stay alive and grow - the primary goal of the WMF is to get more money, to pay themselves better. The knowledge curated by volunteers became merely a product they can use to profit from.
Not even 5% of their annual expenses are for hosting. It would be entirely possible for them to cap their donations to 50 million, and wikipedia itself would still be the same. But hundreds of people would stop receiving money for what is likely a privileged and secure job that doesn't require lots of effort. A secure bubble to live in and feel good about. Sadly, this is technically parasitic - others are doing the work, and these people leach on both the work of volunteers, and money of donors.
The sad truth is that emotionally manipulative messages are essential to the survival and growth of the WMF. It's simply a complacent strategy to get the biggest financial return with the least amount of work. If they published a message that said "This year we need 10 million to survive, everything extra is optional and you don't need to donate if you don't have spare money. No matter what happens, Wikipedia will stay online, because we will always manage to collect enough money to cover the hosting", then many privileged people at the WMF would lose their secure job.
And that's why the WMF will NEVER change the strategy, even though they pay lip-service to keep the volunteers in line.
If one day they get 500 million per year in donations, their expenses will rise accordingly, to something like 400 million, as putting away 100 million is in their best own interest. What's not in their own interest, though, is respecting the wishes of the volunteers and donors.
When we look at it from the outside, we can understand the donation campaigns as the work of a self-serving entity that takes the free knowledge of the world hostage for their own advantage.
Now, no one can blame them - in the system we live in, this is the only way how organizations can exist. They always try to survive and grow and sustain itself.
The bigger problem is that society hasn't yet figured out how to create structures that don't devolve into money-grabs, but continue to serve the public good.
The problem is with the incentives and lack of transparency. A traditional corporation has an incentive to be economical - at least small and middle sized companies do. If you have 10 employees, and one of them has 0% productivity, you have to fire him.
WMF has what to them likely feels like an endless money flow based on nothing but a banner. They can use as much money as they receive, and there won't be any negative consequences at all in the short-term.
What the WMF calls "expenses" is actually simply the decision to transfer most of the income immediately into the hands of the employees of the WMF.
In a world of ads, affiliate links and profit-driven journalism, Wikipedia, despite its faults, is essential, even in the state it's currently in. It should be scrutinized, but be kept in mind that it's still one of the best things that exist on the world wide web.