Not the worst example I've heard. In 2016 the Haitian president canceled daylight savings by decree two days before the changeover. I was flying out of the country the morning after the change, and had a really hard time explaining to airline customer service (who hadn't gotten the memo) what exactly the problem was. "When does my flight leave?" "At the scheduled time." "According to what clock?" "Huh?" I just showed…
Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
61–70 of 174 posts
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#62I like this chaos-monkey approach to politics, and we should do it more often. Now let me slide this handle that increases taxes on HFT and see what happens.
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
But this is one more reason to save the timezone and stop calculating on current data? Save the time and timezone of the event in the other country, so literally the time it starts not the calculated local time. Unless the other country decides to switch timezones, well then you are screwed.
That assumes you know what timezone the user intended. If I read somewhere that some football match in Chile is happening on November 1st at 1 o'clock, I may well put in a reminder for November 1st at 1 o'clock, without specifying a timezone or location. The calendar/reminder app would of course be unable to notify me that Chile's time for November 1st has changed, since I never told it anything about Chile.
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#64Not the worst example I've heard. In 2016 the Haitian president canceled daylight savings by decree two days before the changeover. I was flying out of the country the morning after the change, and had a really hard time explaining to airline customer service (who hadn't gotten the memo) what exactly the problem was. "When does my flight leave?" "At the scheduled time." "According to what clock?" "Huh?" I just showed…
Morocco did the same thing in 2018 - less than two days' notice. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45995634
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#65Chilean here. Unfortunately our governments have had the bad habit of changing the date DST starts on every two-three years, and that wreaks havoc everywhere in the country. We are kind of used to having a couple of days where we assume everyone will run an hour late because of this. I just hosted some Peruvian friends this week and were amazed at the kind of power the government wields just by having the ability to…
So that's why `tzdata` constantly gets updated.
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Random time zone offset changes are not." Are you saying that our computer systems are so inflexible that we cannot make them do our bidding? The issue here has nothing to do with whether daylight saving is appropriate or not, rather it's about the inability of computers to adapt quickly. When I was studying computing I had a textbook titled Problems for Computer Solution, it was about how to get computers to do our…
"Are you saying that our computer systems are so inflexible that we cannot make them do our bidding? " Yes, of course that is the case. Any non-internet connected clock (microwaves, cars, toys, $10 alarm clocks, wristwatches, etc) will not be able to respond to these types of changes. Calling these computers may be significantly overstating their abilities. "it was about how to get computers to do our bidding - not v…
My post about 19th C. timezones and train timetables is about this very point. All these independent systems are independent 'timezones' and that's the problem - and it's a fundamental one!
First, closed systems are intrinsically subject to drift and will never really be on time anyway. Second, there's nothing wrong with an independent closed system having a 'clock' - 'oscillator' would be a better word here - but it was all too convenient to couple this with external time systems. In essence, independent closed systems will never be in sync with external time.
If closed systems have to have time clocks that are an analog of real-world time then they should always be considered an approximation as with all analog systems. Relying on them for accuracy has to be a last ditch resort.
The trouble is that we never adopted this newer mindset from the outset of digital systems, instead we simply repeated the earlier mistake of every town having its own timezone.
There are ways around these problems just as there were in the 19th C. but no one has bothered to implement them.
This is not the place to delve into them except to say that they involve both technological solutions and an automatic assumption by humans that closed systems cannot be relied upon to provide accurate time.
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#67Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#68This seemingly almost happened a year or two ago in Georgia (the US state, not the country) when the legislature overwhelmingly supported ending the twice a year time change. But much like the public, the legislature couldn't agree on if they should go to year around standard time or year around daylight saving time, with one house passing standard time overwhelmingly and the other house passing DST overwhelmingly. T…
Not exactly what happened in the end. The house and senate in Georgia agreed on DST. However we can’t change to permanent DST yet. By Federal Law an act of Congress has to happen to change the law. https://www.fox5atlanta.com/weather/permanent-daylight-savin...
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#69Some call it "chaos", others might call it "badly written software".
Some might call it "chaos", others might call it "stupid government policy compounded by (the expected) moronic government implantation guidelines"
Having to deal with online calendars being off by one hour for a week is not that bad in comparison, we are already used to that :)
Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fundamental problem is that we humans are slaves to our computer systems instead of them being our slaves. By definition, a computer is a streamlined process or procedure designed to help humans but that's so often not the case. (Something that's so often overlooked.) The fact is that the biggest problem in computing is that their ergonomics suck big-time. This daylight saving issue is yet another instance of it.…
No, the fundamental problem is that DST is an ill-conceived concept, and being forced to inscribe it in software exposes all the contradictions and inconsistencies. As another poster said, when is 1:30am on November 6th in Ontario? The only thing this has to with computers is that we do all organizational stuff with computers nowadays. Changing DST on short notice would have caused chaos in the 19th century as well.
That's just an opinion, not an absolute fact. There's nothing fundamental about it. After all, over the last hundred years or more most countries have had DST so that's the opposite opinion - and for DST to be so widely adopted many millions thought it was a good idea.
I'm only stating facts. Frankly, I couldn't give damn whether we had DST or not and I can never understand why people get so hot and bothered over the issue.
If I were ever forced to choose a system then I'd choose neither standard time or DST. Instead I'd move all clocks forward an hour and leave them there permanently but I'd never lose any sleep over the matter.