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So you want to be a writer?

poets.org

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Re: So you want to be a writer?

#61

Post by j0hnyl »

coldtea wrote: post #33
acdw wrote: post #9

honestly this is such a bad take and it really annoys me. it's okay if it doesn't come easily! some of the best works of art took ages to conceptualize and realize, and the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing.

> the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing. Sloppy and unconsidered is the whole point. The same way a punk song (1977-era not Green Day era) is not meant to sound like a classical concerto.

Funny, I don't find his writing sloppy and unconsidered at all. His sense of style is so clearly defined, that I think I can come across a poem or story of his that I hadn't read before and recognize it as his work.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#62

Post by psychomugs »

mhaberl wrote: post #48
goto11 wrote: post #14

Apparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing i…

> romantic idea that art is divinely inspired I certainly believe that is true. When I do my best work (programming, not poetry) I feel like I was inspired. I always get inspired in the same way, by doing the hard work for as long as it takes, and that usually feels like torture. Perhaps Adams and Bukowski use a simmilar method to each other, but is just presented differently. > Charles Bukowski: > if you have to sit…

My most recent episode of "divine inspiration" was in the last months of my PhD. I felt like both a sponge where everything I was experiencing could be spun into a relevant idea and a faucet on full blast where I couldn't stop the flow of ideas if I tried. I had several sleepless nights and work binges that left me more energized than tired. Graduating and getting my work published were somewhat validating that the ideas weren't totally manic and made sense to at least some audiences.

The flip side is a hypersensitivity I've experienced from other periods of artistic zen (photography, music). Everything, good and bad, gets cranked up to 11 and the pendulum breaks off its carrier eventually. And so it did.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#64

Post by JackFr »

bazoom42 wrote: post #58
JackFr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about being mean. It’s the poems. They’re not good poems.

Thank you for your insight. Definitely made me reevaluate my opinions.

> the brand he built his career

Doesn’t speak well for the work frankly.

Why can’t his poetry speak for itself? Why is it only good when we know the backstory?

The emperor has no clothes. His work is simplistic and the gravitas is fake.

Glad for you if you like his work - there is no accounting for taste. I know I’m in the minority, and learned scholars disagree. I’m not trying to convince anyone, just offering a differing viewpoint.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#65

Post by Balgair »

photochemsyn wrote: post #16

Bukoski goes well with Philip K Dick. The portrait they paint of 1950s and 1960s America (even if accidentally) is truly dystopian, a world of wild-eyed amphetamine addicts and self-destructive alcoholics wrapped up in the social norms of their day. It's really some of the most depressing literature out there, and almost none of the characters in their works are even vaguely likable or admirable. It's probably 'good…

Seasons in Hell by Mike Shopshire paints a similar picture of early 70's middle America. Looking back, I get a sense of how depression era people felt about the 20's. Pages of complaints about constant hangovers gets really childish really fast, especially for middle aged men.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#66

Post by acdw »

coldtea wrote: post #33
acdw wrote: post #9

honestly this is such a bad take and it really annoys me. it's okay if it doesn't come easily! some of the best works of art took ages to conceptualize and realize, and the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing.

> the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing. Sloppy and unconsidered is the whole point. The same way a punk song (1977-era not Green Day era) is not meant to sound like a classical concerto.

I mean there is no art there. There is art, there is angst, in OG punk songs, and the music helps. There is no art in Bukowski's poems. His line breaks are all over the place, he's cynical and bitter, and ... that's it. That's all there is to his writing. There's no nuance, no feeling, no nothing.

At least punk songs have some kind of emotional resonance, or at the very least a good hook, you know?

I guess what I'm saying is that every Bukowski poem I've read reads like one I wrote in seventh grade.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#67

Post by acdw »

j0hnyl wrote: post #61
coldtea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing. Sloppy and unconsidered is the whole point. The same way a punk song (1977-era not Green Day era) is not meant to sound like a classical concerto.

Funny, I don't find his writing sloppy and unconsidered at all. His sense of style is so clearly defined, that I think I can come across a poem or story of his that I hadn't read before and recognize it as his work.

Maybe I should read more Bukowski. Have you any recommendations?

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#68

Post by tengbretson »

bazoom42 wrote: post #21
tengbretson wrote: post #12

Charles Bukowski is shit. There, I wrote it.

So brave! Seriously, that is basically the brand he built his career on. If you really wanted to be mean, you would say “Bukowski is really a very nice guy, nothing at all like the low-life he writes about”.

If he's going to romanticize hedonic scumbaggery, the least he could do is look like he's having a good time.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#69

Post by CaptArmchair »

coldtea wrote: post #26
ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

> However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. Is it a different outlook? I think the "don't try" in the gravestone you mention refers to the same concept, or as Yoda put it "Do or Do not. Do not try". "Don't try" to me reads not like "Don't do anything daring" (avoid trying stuff) but instead "Do things fully, don't just dip your toes in" (co…

Roald Dahl wrote in "Uncle Oswald"

> “I began to realize how important it was to be an enthusiast in life. He taught me that if you are interested in something, no matter what it is, go at it at full speed ahead. Embrace it with both arms, hug it, love it and above all become passionate about it. Lukewarm is no good. Hot is no good either. White hot and passionate is the only thing to be.”

And I think that's exactly what you and Bukowski are saying here.

Of course, the "don't try" line is an aphorism. Often enough, you won't know whether or not you'll like something until you've tried it. And sometimes, it might take a few tries and some warming up. That's only human. Often enough, though you already know deep down your gut "this isn't for me" while your mind hasn't caught up yet. Bukowski's poem might just be the bucket of icewater that some aspiring writers, stuck in a grueling grind over their keyboards, really need.

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