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They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

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Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#61

Post by deltree7 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #30

I am sorry for the responses I am seeing on HN. People with cushy lives who've likely never faced similar danger seem to just not really get it. I will say that your framing is one that most Westerners will have trouble taking seriously. It might go over better to document known cases where this pattern occurred and show the similarities. Walk people through it like they are five, so to speak. I know it's hard to do…

People with cushy lives, working for some mid-level corp writing CRUD apps used by 20 people, also have never faced the challenges of moderation at million people scale. So, it kind of cuts both ways

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#62

Post by pseudo0 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #58
MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

> Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. Perhaps a 3rd option is to go on the attack, and find some angle from which to sue Twitter?

The focus on Twitter seems a bit strange. Per the author's post, the government of Pakistan is arresting journalists and activists, manufacturing a pretext after the fact:

> In Pakistan, activists and journalists are routinely picked up (abducted) and tortured by the country's police and secret services. Same happened this time, some of the top journalists and anchors were picked up - some without warrants with fake cases filed post-arrest.

Twitter removing the fake claims won't stop the ISI or whoever from kicking his door in, if/when he returns to Pakistan.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#63

Post by root_axis »

> Twitter, despite millions of Pakistani users, it seems has no moderation system that understands local dynamics.

Many would argue they don't even understand the local dynamics of the U.S. It's impossible for twitter to be an arbiter of the truth around the world, and you shouldn't expect them to be. However, I understand that's cold comfort for someone facing the threat of torture, death, or exile from their home, and I think your decision to call out twitter using your own platform to act with respect to your specific circumstances is the right thing to do and really the only way to handle this kind of thing.

Good luck, I hope you stay safe and that the government doesn't succeed in silencing you.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#64

Post by zionic »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

This is why I prefer “protocols over platforms”.

This entire thing isn’t twitters fault any more than it is WiFi’s, DNS, or TCP’s.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#65

Post by unixbane »

unixbane wrote: post #33

Yes yes, we're all gonna die because people are allowed to post on the internet. Decentralized messaging platforms should be illegal because they can't be moderated. You should only be able to host an internet service with a license and yearly federal inspections to make sure you're properly storing and backing up accountability logs of all users. > blah blah blah there are insane people in my country who will kill p…

Also, this title is the most hyperbolic "wah company bad" bullshit ever written.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#66

Post by thewebcount »

QuantumGood wrote: post #57
MichaelCollins wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very low opinion of twitter and certainly wish they'd do a better job. But the premise of twitter as a shield against state-sponsored kidnapping or murder seems flimsy at best.

Isn't there a word for the fallacy that something can improve a situation and should, but because it can't solve it we should ignore that it's improvement is important ethically?

The nirvana fallacy [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#67

Post by pbasista »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

> whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault

The hate speech itself is of course the sole responsibility of whoever created it.

Twitter is, however, fully responsible for allowing it to be spread.

Without a major communication channel which enables this hate speech to reach massive audiences, it would most likely remain isolated to a small number of people. And it probably would not evolve into a hate _action_.

The people behind this hate speech could of course reach to some dodgy places and hire professional mercenaries who might do the dirty jobs for them. But that is risky for them because their true identity might be revealed to the authorities or they might be betrayed or worse.

So what they do instead is they use a public channel, as big as they could find, like Twitter, to reach out to everyone who might be interested to answer their calling. They are counting on the possibility that maybe some psychopath with the will and abilities to do whatever they ask for will just go and do it.

The important part is that Twitter is used here as a communication medium without which the hate speech spreaders would have no major audience to pass their hate onto. The fact that they are allowed to do so absolutely is Twitter's responsibility.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#68

Post by Bakary »

hackerlight wrote: post #38
dcow wrote: post #14

This really sucks to hear. What’s unclear to me is whether Twitter is being negligent or abnormal here or whether this is just shitty world politics unfolding partly on Twitter. Twitter is being used by both sides to fight over a narrative. Nothing new in that respect. The author doesn't really propose a solution other than Twitter essentially siding with him and take (what appears to me to be) a political stance. Of…

Preventing harassment isn't the same as "taking a political stance".

Most people don't think their stance is ever political. But it very clearly is here since Twitter would be directly at odds with the Pakistani government if they sided with the journalist.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#69

Post by dcow »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #53
MichaelCollins wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very low opinion of twitter and certainly wish they'd do a better job. But the premise of twitter as a shield against state-sponsored kidnapping or murder seems flimsy at best.

That's not the premise. This kind of bullshit is exactly how disempowered groups get painted into a corner. Sexual assault doesn't typically begin with violent rape. It ends there. It begins with a million small forms of disrespect. Political crap follows the same pattern. If you think it doesn't fucking matter, what the hell do you care how this goes? It matters to him. If you don't care, what's wrong with saying "T…

I think you're applying too much nuance to this. Reading all the comments, I think everyone generally wants good for the author. There are just a few different ways to communicating that. Roughly they seem to be:

1. epmathy and twitter do better

2. empathy and this is what you get with twitter

3. empath and practical advice

You seem to be railing against (2). Personally I find the bone you're picking to really be besides the point. Most everyone is empathizing with the author's struggle. Nobody here is telling the author to go fuck themselves. Nobody is condoning what Twitter is doing. And certainly nobody is disrespecting the author or supporting the misinformation. So your comment really feels like a non sequitur.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#70

Post by kelseyfrog »

zionic wrote: post #64
MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

This is why I prefer “protocols over platforms”. This entire thing isn’t twitters fault any more than it is WiFi’s, DNS, or TCP’s.

What's the fallacy for "X is value neutral so all products of X are also value neutral?" We saw the same pattern in the ethics in science thread or any ethics in technogy thread.
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