Live data from Hacker News

Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

cryptogif.info

61–70 of 73 posts

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of crypto tokens are inflationary. Some are deflationary. Some are both, based on supply and demand.

Let's be frank here, just about most of them are deflationary.

Bitcoin, sure.

Ethereum and it’s many stablecoin tokens, Solana, Polkadot, Tezos, all do not have fixed supply and may be inflationary at times.

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#62
post #21
post #2

As a crypto enthusiast I looked into what it would take to accept ADA payments on my membership site without relying on a payment provider. I was surprised by the quality of the documentation and realized it was quite feasible to implement. I decided against it as the sentiment around crypto (even a proof of stake chain like Cardano) would probably have a negative net result on customer acquisition and retention. It…

I tried buying ADA two years ago. Practically impossible.

I bought some last week with the mobile Revolut app. It was dead easy. The 2.5% fee is a bit much for my liking though.

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#63
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to pay with crypto. Every time I type my credit card number into some web form I think "Damn, I hope the number will not end up in some shady hands causing me trouble". I had my credit card disabled once because someone started using it to buy stuff with it around the world. What a freaking hassle. Telephone calls, letters, several days without a CC, had to change the number everywhere .. annoying. Payin…

You are saying that you rather would have your crypto wallet stolen instead of your credit card?

what kind of misleading analogy is this? you're not sharing your private key (if you have half a brain cell anyway) when paying with crypto so why even bring this up?

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#64
post #46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn, SMM, basically any international digital services on the PayPal blacklist.

Porn: I'm not up to speed on the cryptocurrency use in porn. Shouldn't this run into consumer protection issues? That is: while it and debit cards don't guarantee as simple a chargeback as a credit card, there are still laws here. So let's say pornhub takes bitcoin (can't check, as I'm in a public place). It still needs a refunds and frauds department for those payments, no? And pornhub does take credit cards. Yes, t…

Smm = Social media marketing, buying likes and that stuff. It's a huge market actually. Porn sites also heavily set on crypto to pay their creators, paying out is even more an issue than charging in such markets.

I don't understand where the issue with refunding crypto should be. It's also way cheaper than what stripe, PayPal or co charges if users issue refunds. Personally I only save money by using crypto, I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year. For me as merchants it's a non brainer.

I also use crypto as a customer but I usually trust these companies before I send money. The swiss Amazon is accepting crypto for example, as customer I trust them and all customer protections laws apply as well.

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#66

>Right now nobody is really interested in using Crypto for payment. I like to find real use cases and looking forward to buy real stuff with it, but most people just hodl, especially when markets are down. I saw Solana and thought, okay so it is possible to build a scalable cryptocurrency, but then again, the culture of speculation and excessive amounts of volatility make cryptocurrency useless for payments. The only…

> I saw Solana and thought, okay so it is possible to build a scalable cryptocurrency, but then again, the culture of speculation and excessive amounts of volatility make cryptocurrency useless for payments.

Solana, Stellar and Algorand makes it usable and possible for scalable crypto payments with USDC. I just tried it, swapped it and it works well.

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#67
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> memo/credit-to field in the transaction as the article mentioned. I assume there should be an API to prefill this, making it easier for humans. Could literally just be the unique order ID or a hash thereof. > I guess you could ask users what addresses they are sending Why would you need to ask? Isn’t there a captive payment portal API, like with popular wallets eg Metamask? > I’m not sure what you think is ineffici…

> Isn’t there a captive payment portal API probably? Normally you’d just say “send $5 to xyz” and the user copy-pastes the number and address to their wallet. It’s like sending a wire transfer. > Firstly, it pollutes the blockchain with single use addresses UTXO blockchains like Bitcoin were designed with the assumption that each address will only be used for 1 transaction for privacy reasons. There are no per-addres…

Yep, I understood that. My point is cashing out 500 payments from single use wallets leads to 500x the transaction fees versus 1 main wallet, right. The customers would anyway pay the incoming fees, but outgoing gets expensive esp for smaller txes. Why is this optimal for a store?

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#68
post #64
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn: I'm not up to speed on the cryptocurrency use in porn. Shouldn't this run into consumer protection issues? That is: while it and debit cards don't guarantee as simple a chargeback as a credit card, there are still laws here. So let's say pornhub takes bitcoin (can't check, as I'm in a public place). It still needs a refunds and frauds department for those payments, no? And pornhub does take credit cards. Yes, t…

Smm = Social media marketing, buying likes and that stuff. It's a huge market actually. Porn sites also heavily set on crypto to pay their creators, paying out is even more an issue than charging in such markets. I don't understand where the issue with refunding crypto should be. It's also way cheaper than what stripe, PayPal or co charges if users issue refunds. Personally I only save money by using crypto, I save t…

> I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year

Honest question: Have you run that past a lawyer? Chargebacks are partially based in law, so while you could be saving money now, it could be by building up more and more legal liability and risk.

But maybe you'll be fine, because you refund any and all refund requests.

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#69
post #11

Let me know if I am wrong about using crypto for payments: My understanding is that a big, maybe the biggest, obstacle is taxes. In countries like the USA and Germany, the way I understand tax law is: When you buy something with crypto, that counts as a sale of an asset. So you have to document what the fair value of the coffee you bought is at that point in time, subtract what you paid for the crypto you used and th…

What you write is a very important part of the equotion. Another part is that implementing improvements to open source payment systems is not as organized as in a top-down company with a great visionary enterpreneur.

Blockchains are not practical for payments because they payments are not instantly finalized, so they can't be used for synchronous payments, which makes integrating them to a web site super hard.

It seems that the best solution for instant final debit payments is to have a network of payment channels (lightning network inside Bitcoin, but Ethereum has some similar projects as well).

Most of the talent is creating new cryptocurrencies/tokens which doesn't really help payments. The remaining talent working on payments is not that big (just a bunch of people really) split to 4 different implementations (in the lightning network case, but Ethereum's implementations also have competing projects) that are compatible but still take a lot of work just to rewrite the same thing in 4 languages.

Some of the improvements for scaling lightning network are clear, some are under research (I'm working on implementing min cost flow optimizer into one of the implementations to be able to send large payments on the lightning network, which is not possible right now, but I had to choose an implementation to work on first, as working on 4 implementations is too much).

Re: Difficulties of providing a crypto payment system on your website

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that lots of card providers can generate virtual cards for free on demand these days right? Another set of details that works the same as your original card but can be used for, say, just one site and cancelled at any time if it gets misused. If that's your only gripe than that's probably the easier way than switching to an entirely separate financial system.

It is not realistic to generate a virtual card for each purchase. It creates a documentation headache as well, such as handling returns and payment proofs.

I expect credit cards to become more like private keys in time, managed by the company, and transactions will have unique tokens so that your real number is never passed to the vendor. Blockchain like ideas will be implemented in "TradFi" without the overhead of blockchain.
Post reply on HN