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Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#61

Post by kahrl »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #38
ideamotor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t live in a meritocracy even just in our own country. It’s a myth that is used to justify bad behavior.

We also don't live in the antithesis of a meritocracy either. Competency is usually rewarded, and rewards are pretty well correlated with competency. There's plenty of room in the tails one can cite to justifyany opinion on the matter, but on average I think we're far more meritocratic than not.

Capital is usually rewarded, and rewards are pretty well correlated with capital.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#62

Post by xyzzyz »

kahrl wrote: post #61
Enginerrrd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also don't live in the antithesis of a meritocracy either. Competency is usually rewarded, and rewards are pretty well correlated with competency. There's plenty of room in the tails one can cite to justifyany opinion on the matter, but on average I think we're far more meritocratic than not.

Capital is usually rewarded, and rewards are pretty well correlated with capital.

Ah yes, the US universities are well known to hire the wealthiest elites as researchers. Poor foreign grad students are virtually absent from US universities.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#63

Post by bnug »

_yb2s wrote: post #30

As a US academic at a prestigious institution, I find it surprising how few of my close colleagues and collaborators are US born- a very small percentage (maybe 10-20%?). In some sense it makes sense that if our institutions are best, the globally best researchers would all come here. If it were a true meritocracy, I guess we would expect ~4-5% of US academics to be US born, given that it's our percentage of the worl…

I think its because advanced degrees fast track the immigration process, and the better paying jobs are in the US. Those born in the US get a bachelors degree and then a job (probably to pay off the student debt). For a non-US born person with a bachelors degree, it is far more difficult to find a job in the US, so they apply for a MS/PhD program. Then the MS/PhD programs are full of foreign nationals, and naturally the academic R&D jobs pull from that pool made up of mostly non-US persons.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#64

Post by dr_dshiv »

dcolkitt wrote: post #58
Test0129 wrote: post #10

> Combined with sorting dynamics that concentrated talent and resources at some schools—and the emergence of tenure—this enhanced research performance. Something tells me this is only part of the story. Yes, after several wars we took in scientists who subsequently brought new ideas, improved teaching, etc to the country. But this ignores the biggest factor: US universities have tremendous endowments [1]. Having depl…

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

Really? Few would argue that America has the best healthcare system but the healthcare, hospitals and medical education are, perhaps, unsurpassed.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#65

Post by kahrl »

xyzzyz wrote: post #62
kahrl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capital is usually rewarded, and rewards are pretty well correlated with capital.

Ah yes, the US universities are well known to hire the wealthiest elites as researchers. Poor foreign grad students are virtually absent from US universities.

What are you on about? If you read the parent comments, we are talking about country-wide generalisms.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#66

Post by dougabug »

wutbrodo wrote: post #44
_yb2s wrote: post #30

As a US academic at a prestigious institution, I find it surprising how few of my close colleagues and collaborators are US born- a very small percentage (maybe 10-20%?). In some sense it makes sense that if our institutions are best, the globally best researchers would all come here. If it were a true meritocracy, I guess we would expect ~4-5% of US academics to be US born, given that it's our percentage of the worl…

I don't think even the most Pollyanna-ish perspective claims that there's a global meritocracy. The smashing success of merit-based immigrants in high-income countries is a pretty undeniable signal that we're nowhere near the point where the marginal legal immigrant is less "meritorious" than the pop avg. I'm personally willing to bite the whole bullet and am an open-borders advocate. But it's a mistake to think that…

Immigrant populations aren’t generally uniform random samples of the rest of the world’s population. People with wealth, social capital, high levels of education (which correlates with family background), extraordinary athletic ability, etc. have a generally easier time of immigrating to this (or probably most) countries.

Anti-immigration lobbies have tended to caricature and scapegoat low skilled, low income, “undesirables;” while touting their support for (limited) immigration of high skilled, well-heeled immigrants as evidence of that they aren’t simply against foreigners.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#67

Post by [deleted] »

dcolkitt wrote: post #58
Test0129 wrote: post #10

> Combined with sorting dynamics that concentrated talent and resources at some schools—and the emergence of tenure—this enhanced research performance. Something tells me this is only part of the story. Yes, after several wars we took in scientists who subsequently brought new ideas, improved teaching, etc to the country. But this ignores the biggest factor: US universities have tremendous endowments [1]. Having depl…

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

[deleted]

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#68

Post by Auracle »

dcolkitt wrote: post #58
Test0129 wrote: post #10

> Combined with sorting dynamics that concentrated talent and resources at some schools—and the emergence of tenure—this enhanced research performance. Something tells me this is only part of the story. Yes, after several wars we took in scientists who subsequently brought new ideas, improved teaching, etc to the country. But this ignores the biggest factor: US universities have tremendous endowments [1]. Having depl…

These are all good points. But what's interesting is that very similar things could also be said about the US healthcare system . And yet unlike American universities, it's not clear that American hospitals or healthcare is worldclass.

The Mayo Clinic gets 8,000 international patients a year. That’s quite a few people who are willing to take a flight and pay our high prices for medical care.

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#69

Post by xyzzyz »

kahrl wrote: post #65
xyzzyz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the US universities are well known to hire the wealthiest elites as researchers. Poor foreign grad students are virtually absent from US universities.

What are you on about? If you read the parent comments, we are talking about country-wide generalisms.

Which are clearly false when applied to the actual topic of discussion, so why bring them up?

Re: Why Does the U.S. Have the Best Research Universities? (2020)

#70

Post by juve1996 »

t_mann wrote: post #6

Frankly, I find the basic premise of this paper - the explanation for US academic excellence lies in resource allocation and management - questionable. I'd be more interested in a theory of political scientists who explain it as a function of political power. Considering that Germany was the world's research powerhouse in the 19th century, I'd like to see the hypothesis 'You can't have the best universities in the wo…

At this point world war 2 ended almost 80 years ago. Most of the nations have since recovered and are quite rich. Something else is there.
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