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Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

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Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#61

Post by akudha »

voakbasda wrote: post #15
_Microft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk once argued that once full self-driving works, it would be more profitable for Tesla to use these cars for an own taxi service than it would be to sell them to customers. They plan to raise the price even more the closer they (claim to) get to their goal.

I don’t understand that endgame. I would never want strangers in my car unsupervised. They will be having sex, puking, changing diapers, and worse. Just imagine all of the fluids and smells that they would leave behind. How is this remotely a good idea?

Maybe they’d introduce a car that not only drives itself, but also cleans itself? :P

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#62

Post by JadoJodo »

I wouldn’t have an issue with this if the upgrade went with the car, but the idea that it turns back off when the person whose driveway it lives in changes is too close to IAPs for me.

If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup fee to configure my specific vehicle and perhaps a (small) upgrade fee when major versions are released.

But this idea that Tesla wants to have the best of both worlds (massive fees that reoccur) while I get the worst of both worlds (massive fees for a value that I can’t sell/transfer) is one of the two big reasons I can’t see getting a Tesla (even though I would love to).

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#63

Post by martindbp »

washbrain wrote: post #8

It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer. Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability. Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten. And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 yea…

> since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer

That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#64

Post by ohgodplsno »

darknavi wrote: post #30
washbrain wrote: post #8

It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer. Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability. Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten. And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 yea…

> Between the low reliability, low build quality FWIW we have a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model Y and both have had very minor or no manufacturer issues. Both have never needed anything other than minor, at home service from Tesla (mostly tire swaps).

A single example does not make for a general rule. Aside from the fact that thank fucking god a less than 1 year old car and a less than 4 year old car should not have some manufacturer issues, Tesla still has a dreadful 226PP100 (as in, each Tesla tested had on average 2.6 problems in a single year), even worse than the industry average (which includes some truly terrible constructors).

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#65

Post by ohgodplsno »

spoonjim wrote: post #34
washbrain wrote: post #8

It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer. Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability. Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten. And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 yea…

> low reliability, low build quality These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.

Hot tip, ship fast and break things doesn't work when you're talking about putting out a 2 ton, gigantic battery out in the world that is expected to last for over 20 years. This is a gigantic waste. Any other company would have been crucified for putting out such a shit car, and the only reason Tesla survived it is because they had funny meme man to do damage control.

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#66

Post by ohgodplsno »

abc_lisper wrote: post #56
kaczordon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suspension on the model 3 and Y is definitely not luxury. Nor is the interior build quality. I own a model Y and there’s plenty of creaks and noises in it that other car models don’t have. Also the highway FSD is still ridiculously bad with it’s phantom braking where at 70MPH your car will just slam on the brakes. And highway driving is the easy version that most other manufacturers have now too. And now it looks…

If phantom braking is reproducible, ie it happens at the same place and time(because sun angle) you should report it to Tesla. Or post a YouTube and link on Twitter. In 15k miles of mostly autopilot, I have had phantom brake happen once or twice. I’m in the Bay Area. It happened when it couldn’t tell wether the shadow of over cross bridge from a physical object. What is your experience?

>It happened when it couldn’t tell wether the shadow of over cross bridge from a physical object.

Who could have predicted that just relying just on cameras was not a good solution ? Definitely not the hundreds of researchers that told Musk that a LIDAR was necessary.

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#67

Post by Geee »

klyrs wrote: post #24
bufferoverflow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? I watch FSD progress, and it's clearly getting closer to human level driving. Just go on YouTube and compare FSD from two years ago to the latest. It's night and day. Yes, it still makes mistakes. Humans make mistakes all the time while driving. As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car. Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem…

Does it work in rain, snow, and/or night? How about country roads and roads without clearly marked lanes or misleading lane lines? It's like hiring a plumber who can only flush toilets, not install them. Self driving in pristine conditions is a party trick. Until it can do the hard part, it's nowhere near human-level.

FSD handles those situations well, compared to Waymo etc, because FSD doesn't depend on pre-mapping. Waymo depends on pre-generated 3D maps and it fails if there's a discrepancy. That's why Waymo works only on small areas and uses cherry-picked routes.

See this example, where the map data is completely wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTV9SlutU0

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#68

Post by rvz »

martindbp wrote: post #63
washbrain wrote: post #8

It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer. Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability. Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten. And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 yea…

> since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.

> That is just an absurd statement.

No it isn't. It is also not early days either and we have given FSD enough time to meet the claims of achieving Level 5 with those strong and 'confident' deadlines even set by Musk himself, which he knew he couldn't meet, but the gullible customers and fans rushed in and fell for it anyway.

Not only they have all been missed, this year, Tesla finally admitted that it was Level 2 and it still doesn't work in the most dangerous time to drive which is at night. FSD (Fools Self Driving) is no where near close in the nearly ten years it has existed.

This is an obvious over-promising of a broken product with the pied-piper selling it to their fans scam.

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#69

Post by ohgodplsno »

darknavi wrote: post #31
allears wrote: post #2

Charge more = fewer buyers = fewer accidents = less bad press. That Elon, what a smart guy!

Elon really does believe in a utopia where no public transportation exists and everyone drives around I, Robot style. We really need competition in this space (FSD) if we want prices to go down.

Elon doesn't give a shit about reaching a utopia, merely that people drive (his) cars, and is willing to torpedo all public transit projects to reach that. He is an active threat to society.

Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th

#70

Post by Geee »

sudosysgen wrote: post #58
Geee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable. Similar to Apple, people expect more from them than anyone else. Minor issues on Apple products are always scandals. Remember Antennagate? People were sure that it would sink Apple, because "they don't know how to make antennas". People and media handle Tesla similarly, and minor issues are blown out of proportion…

Tesla promised Level 5 autonomy in all conditions by 2020. People paid a lot of money based on that promise.

Yeah, the timeline was over-promised. That's a different issue.
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