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Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

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Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#61

Post by motohagiography »

Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes, a) it is unimportant and it is not a part of a group that is important, b) doubts its legitimacy, and c) should be a passive particpant in the narratives around it?

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some ideas are specifically designed to be pacifying and neutralizing, and concern about conspiracy theories seems to be one of them. Delegitimizing opposition is a standard propaganda tool.

If were to accuse you as a reader of being a propagandized zombie incapable of reason, divorced from reality, operating as an ideological automaton in a bubble of insidiously manufactured stimuli - I would suspect your response would be dismissive. Yet this is exactly what we accuse people of when we say they believe in conspiracy theories.

All ideologies are conspiracy theories, and the only thing that makes one more meaningful than another is their falsifiability and predictive power about reality - and not its post-hoc explanatory power. As a thinking person with intellectual and moral agency, you are capable of ascertaining whether one or more of your beliefs is the artifact of this one fallacy: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Affirmative_conclusion_from_a_... , and I'd argue that calling people conspiracy theorists is the most reliable indicator that someone has been fully atomized.

I can't defend all assertions of conspiracy, but to me the urge to articulate them at all is an indicator a person is not actuated by the much greater social danger of banal nihilism.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#62

Post by [deleted] »

motohagiography wrote: post #61

Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes, a) it is unimportant and it is not a part of a group that is important, b) doubts its legitimacy, and c) should be a passive particpant in the narratives around it? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some ideas are specifically designed to be pacifying and neutralizing, and concern about conspiracy theories seems to be one of t…

[deleted]

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#63

Post by notacoward »

motohagiography wrote: post #61

Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes, a) it is unimportant and it is not a part of a group that is important, b) doubts its legitimacy, and c) should be a passive particpant in the narratives around it? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some ideas are specifically designed to be pacifying and neutralizing, and concern about conspiracy theories seems to be one of t…

> Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes...

No. That's a huge stretch, if not an outright strawman. There's equal textual support for the more charitable interpretation that many people aren't getting enough of these positive feelings in less Manichaean or conflict-inducing ways. Even as they accept the importance and legitimacy of climate change (for example) they don't get excited by participating in activism on that issue. Conspiracy theories are a way to jump-start those feelings, and often the discomfiture of others is part of the appeal. It enhances the rush. A healthier mind seeks out meaningful engagement without turning it into combat.

> All ideologies are conspiracy theories > ... > the only thing that makes one more meaningful than another is their falsifiability and predictive power

Perhaps you're unaware of the fact that, according to people who actually study these things, non-falsifiability is one of the defining characteristics of a conspiracy theory. So no, not all beliefs are conspiracy theories. "If you disagree you must be part of the conspiracy" is a well known trope, even among comedians. Which brings us to...

> I'd argue that calling people conspiracy theorists is the most reliable indicator that someone has been fully atomized.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#64

Post by motohagiography »

notacoward wrote: post #63
motohagiography wrote: post #61

Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes, a) it is unimportant and it is not a part of a group that is important, b) doubts its legitimacy, and c) should be a passive particpant in the narratives around it? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some ideas are specifically designed to be pacifying and neutralizing, and concern about conspiracy theories seems to be one of t…

> Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes... No. That's a huge stretch, if not an outright strawman. There's equal textual support for the more charitable interpretation that many people aren't getting enough of these positive feelings in less Manichaean or conflict-inducing ways. Even as they accept the importance and legitimacy of climate change (for example) they don't get excited by…

Someone who studied those things would understand that an ideology and a belief are separate things, where one is, literally, artifacts of the iterated logic of an idea and possible conclusions, whereas a belief is an underlying premise or axiom.

Not all beliefs are ideological, and not all ideologies are beliefs, especially when they are just conclusions. Category errors are funny, but clearly not everyone is in on the joke.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#65

Post by Apocryphon »

dwringer wrote: post #36

This gets me thinking of a recent example I was going "down the rabbit hole" reading about, which is the supposed existence and subsequent coverup of a mid-90's movie starring Sinbad and a kid, possibly Jonathan Brandis. Long story short, the comedian Sinbad hosted a Sinbad the Sailor movie (or movies) on some cable channel, and for the skit he was dressed in clothes similar to those a stereotypical genie might wear.…

If you really wanted to give that conspiracy theory some legs, you could tie it to Sinbad (during the 2008 Democratic primaries) debunking Senator Clinton's claims about the alleged action they saw during a fateful 1996 USO tour to Bosnia-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-did-it-take-sinbad-to_b_9...

Though you could probably chalk it up to more of a cosmic Mandela Effect sort of thing.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#66

Post by dwringer »

Apocryphon wrote: post #65
dwringer wrote: post #36

This gets me thinking of a recent example I was going "down the rabbit hole" reading about, which is the supposed existence and subsequent coverup of a mid-90's movie starring Sinbad and a kid, possibly Jonathan Brandis. Long story short, the comedian Sinbad hosted a Sinbad the Sailor movie (or movies) on some cable channel, and for the skit he was dressed in clothes similar to those a stereotypical genie might wear.…

If you really wanted to give that conspiracy theory some legs, you could tie it to Sinbad (during the 2008 Democratic primaries) debunking Senator Clinton's claims about the alleged action they saw during a fateful 1996 USO tour to Bosnia- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-did-it-take-sinbad-to_b_9... Though you could probably chalk it up to more of a c…

Ahh, so the plot thickens...

It's funny how even the slightest bit of uncertainty can make ideas so compelling. It is still by far my favorite "Mandela Effect" example, possibly due to my having been personally affected [or afflicted?].

Edit: Funnily enough, one of the linked articles you provided contains a link which goes to the interview with Sinbad in which he first cast doubt about the conditions in Bosnia, but it just redirects to the WaPo homepage. As does the result when I search for the article in Google. Google's cached version still works, however.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#67

Post by lettergram »

etherael wrote: post #39
lettergram wrote: post #17

I do enjoy the fact "conspiracy theory" is a pejorative, although it's how we interpret the world as humans. The term only started to become a pejorative because the news / government started pushing the idea as a pejorative in the 50's. https://www.routledge.com/The-Stigmatization-of-Conspiracy-T... The term was particular pushed in a negative light onto those questioning the murder of JFK. https://history-matters.c…

The truth values of the narrative in question doesn't actually change the point the article makes, though I suspect this is because they're accidentally right rather than they went out of their way to make allowances for the fact that many conspiracy theories turn out to be true. Believing that the greater social structure of your society is controlled by conspiring entities who tend to work in their mutual self inte…

> Believing that the greater social structure of your society is controlled by conspiring entities who tend to work in their mutual self interest and to support the status quo will almost necessarily be seen negatively by those who merely support the status quo, which is basically everybody.

Lol… the founding documents of the United States are pretty explicit about not trusting government. Something like 80% of people don’t trust news media today.

I wouldn’t say everyone supports the status quo. In fact I think the vast majority of people don’t like the status quo. The discussion is always how to make it better.

All that said, “conspiracies” are real and everywhere. I have multiple active conspiracies with my friends to go on a trip this fall, wife doesn’t know yet. Lol

My point was actually that conspiracies are all around us. Being apart of them is common. That makes us apart of something and makes us happy. Social cohesion wasn’t exactly what I was discussing, but I don’t think cohesion is actually necessary - so long as everyone tolerates one another.

That said I do see your point. The search for truth is definitely key. But truth isn’t much different than faith. Imo believing truth is a willingness to accept constantly being wrong. You much always change your opinions.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#68

Post by drewcoo »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #8

There's an author, Robert Anton Wilson, who started writing an influential novel called the Illuminatus trilogy which is a pretty fun read but basically if the whole point of his work was anything it would be that if you aren't doing something of your own kind of conspiracy and you're instead obsessing over real or imagined conspiracies that other people are doing, you're wasting your time. It's a fun thing to tell s…

For best effect, read the entire trilogy without sleeping, using whatever chemicals necessary to make that happen. And then start to see fnord the signs of conspiracy from the book everywhere in real life.

RAW made conspiracy into art.

I loved it but I also know (and have known) some folks pretty deep into provably untrue conspiracy thinking. Honestly, it seemed to be a way to self-medicate with conspiracies for them. I don't think that my Illuminatus experience compares with what they're thinking in any but the most trivial way.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#69

Post by threatofrain »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #18
Dudeman112 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's no scientific way to disprove any of these theories And yet probability theory has a lot to say about the likelihood of theories and epistemology has come a long way in the last century Not every likely (or unlikely) hypothesis is as likely (or unlikely) as each other

> And yet probability theory has a lot to say Would love to see your experiment design for testing with the null hypothesis "there is no god" ... personally, I'm an atheist, but that's still a belief-based position.

I think for most world religions, belief that spiritualism is isolated as a purely metaphysical affair is a minority, nearly fringe belief. If you isolate spiritualism to the purely philosophical realm then religion loses its potency, and Richard Dawkins will metaphorically laugh as he places some pasta god next to the sacred.

Spiritualism is as much about this world as it is about concepts of afterlife.

Re: Psychological Benefits of Believing in Conspiracy Theories

#70

Post by notacoward »

motohagiography wrote: post #64
notacoward wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should one interpret from this article that a healthier mind believes... No. That's a huge stretch, if not an outright strawman. There's equal textual support for the more charitable interpretation that many people aren't getting enough of these positive feelings in less Manichaean or conflict-inducing ways. Even as they accept the importance and legitimacy of climate change (for example) they don't get excited by…

Someone who studied those things would understand that an ideology and a belief are separate things, where one is, literally, artifacts of the iterated logic of an idea and possible conclusions, whereas a belief is an underlying premise or axiom. Not all beliefs are ideological, and not all ideologies are beliefs, especially when they are just conclusions. Category errors are funny, but clearly not everyone is in on…

I knew someone would focus on that irrelevant bit. If you think the distinction matters, note that OP was about ideas, not ideologies, and you were the one who conflated the two. The category error, if any, is not mine.
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