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Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

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Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#61

Post by [deleted] »

moeris wrote: post #50
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

> he cites a statistic that 50%... Not a statistic so much as an anecdote. He makes it pretty explicit, I thought.

[deleted]

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#62

Post by beebeepka »

antonymy wrote: post #33

I think it's also about the "culture fit" that these high prestige tech companies look for. Young people fresh out of school will not have been "tainted" by the workplace culture of other companies. Moreover, young people in general, but especially those still in the highly social school mindset, tend to be influenced by peers more easily than adults, especially jaded adults. This all makes young people fresh out of…

My current employer is investing heavily into - I wouldn't say hordes, but they are many - juniors because "culture" sculpting Devs for our specific needs.

Or at least that's the official story. While these reasons may be real, I think it boils down to money and loyalty. Can't blame them but yeah, makes me feel a bit uneasy

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#63

Post by ChrisPebble »

crispyambulance wrote: post #53
ChrisPebble wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely true sometimes, but the “wrong” kind of experience can definitely hamper people. I have a highly skilled senior developer with a desktop app development background who joined our web team, he’s excellent at many tasks but keeps getting tripped up when dealing with state. He logically knows how it works, but his muscle memory when programming is so used to being able to rely on state that it’s hard…

> He’s still an amazing asset to the team, but in this case he does have some experience that’s hampering him in a new role. OK, but how much could it possibly "hamper" him if he's still an "amazing asset"? Is it a permanent condition? Or is it just something that you noticed once or twice and made a mental note of? We all have gaps and shortcomings. Overcoming them is a matter of practice, but if someone is second-g…

This was just an example where someone with no experience may have had an advantage. They would have had to learn as well, but wouldn’t be fighting against their muscle memory.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. I was arguing against the concept that this can all be attributed to ageism. That there are types of experience that can hamper you.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#64

Post by felideon »

avgDev wrote: post #29

I work for a non-tech company as a solo full stack dev. I have been able to interview with fortune 500 companies and get offers. I have been getting contacted by recruiters from hot startups, Microsoft, Google, AWS, Amazon and Meta. I am not sure if I'm stupid but I really don't know how "no experience" can be better than wrong experience. There is always things you learn, better negotiation tactics, your value to a…

Have never worked for FAANG/MAGMA, but the theory is that if you have `n` years of, say, MUMPS experience at an insurance company, the next candidate with `y` years of Python experience will have a better chance of getting hired---even if `y=0`.

More realistically, you (arguably) have a better chance of getting hired with 3 years of Python exp at a ML startup or whatever, than with 10 years of exp with $unsexy_lang at $unsexy_corp.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#65

Post by ghaff »

avgDev wrote: post #29

I work for a non-tech company as a solo full stack dev. I have been able to interview with fortune 500 companies and get offers. I have been getting contacted by recruiters from hot startups, Microsoft, Google, AWS, Amazon and Meta. I am not sure if I'm stupid but I really don't know how "no experience" can be better than wrong experience. There is always things you learn, better negotiation tactics, your value to a…

As I read that thread, an engineer--possibly just out of a good school--who does well on interviews is perhaps assumed to be a good hire even though they don't have much experience. (Though maybe they did an interesting project or two.)

On the other hand an engineer who took a job out of school in the IT department of some (perceived) boring stodgy company even if they really aren't (Walmart was mentioned) obviously has something wrong with them in the eyes of some even if it's not obvious what exactly. Better to pass and go for the right new grad who is probably a bit cheaper as well.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#66

Post by bboylen »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #59
bboylen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the technical interviews the primary component at these companies at lower levels though? Hard to imagine someone with a few years of "the wrong experience" who is well versed technically and can handle the coding interview will consistently fail interviews just because the interviewer doesn't recognize their company.

I'm not speaking to whether one with "the wrong experience" can or cannot pass FAANG-level interviews, I'm just commenting on the recruiter outreach from FAANG or startups (particularly AMZ) don't necessarily know or care about your skill, they only care about the buzzwords listed on your social profile(s) and maintaining a "hot" pipeline; aka getting bodies through the pipeline and hoping not to piss off engineering…

I don't disagree, it just seems to me the main barrier of entry is getting the interview in the first place since interviews focus on the technical component, not your resume. So if getting an interview is easy, then it follows that worrying about getting "the wrong experience" is not worthwhile.

I'm mostly responding to the article's claims - not saying you made these claims.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#67

Post by mhotchen »

Referring to the title I think this is exceedingly the exception, not the norm (excluding bad hiring policies). Learning what not to do is more valuable than starting with a clean slate

Referring to the twitter post, I agree. No point wasting time if a better opportunity already presents itself

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#68

Post by bob1029 »

This is something that I have always suspected at some level.

I think wrong experience isn't bad as long as you are willing to be convinced otherwise. For me, the pain kicks in when someone with the wrong experience is not open to alternatives.

Unfortunately, the true willingness of a candidate to entertain alternatives is not something you discover until many weeks/months into the real deal.

As a consequence, resumes with very little technical matter in them have been appealing to me far more than those loaded up with framework-of-the-week and "best practices" word salads.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#69

Post by baobabKoodaa »

eastbound wrote: post #35
madrox wrote: post #4

As a hiring manager, I've found entry level roles to be the hardest to fill well. No metric is a guarantee of a quality candidate. I loathe whiteboard programming, but for entry level jobs it's at least a signal that they're putting in the work to figure out how to be successful within a structure. Beyond that, I want a narrative for the candidate's career...both where they've been and where they want to go. It helps…

I’d love to have a candidate who tells me “I love creating products”. I’ve hired a 100% junior, no school (formerly teacher), he kicks ass, I’ve increased his salary by 10% every 2 months since 8 months. He just loves the art of creating a product, maintaining it in prod, interviewing customers… You are correct, it’s incredibly hard to detect.

Can you disclose which company you work for / what your company does?
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