Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid • Hacker News Board

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#61

Post by dcsan » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 4:49 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

epistasis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar is actually super super hard to install right now, because tariffs are in an uncertain space, so nobody knows if, should they import, if they are are going to get a bill in the next 12 months for past sales that's 1x-2x the cost of the import (I forget the exact factor). This sort of protectionism isn't even buying us a bunch of local solar panel production, unfortunately. I'm not a free-market purist, and am i…

There’s about 100GW of solar generation in ERCOT’s interconnect queue at the moment. If there is uncertainty, utility scale developers aren’t signaling it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32071998 > As of 30 September [2021] developers had 100.3GW of solar capacity in the queue, 42.4GW of utility-scale battery storage, 22.5GW of wind, 13.5GW of natural gas and minor amounts of other technologies such as biomass.…

Since batteries are always the issue... How inefficient is mechanical storage? For example using electricity to just raise a heavy mass then as that lowers it can produce power. It seems that would be cheap to build at scale with the chance for almost unlimited storage.

I have to assume there would be a more than 50% loss through the process, hope someone on hn can comment. Maybe it's not worth it when you can tap into unlimited sunlight the next day.

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#62

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 4:55 AM UTC

dcsan wrote: post #61

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s about 100GW of solar generation in ERCOT’s interconnect queue at the moment. If there is uncertainty, utility scale developers aren’t signaling it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32071998 > As of 30 September [2021] developers had 100.3GW of solar capacity in the queue, 42.4GW of utility-scale battery storage, 22.5GW of wind, 13.5GW of natural gas and minor amounts of other technologies such as biomass.…

Since batteries are always the issue... How inefficient is mechanical storage? For example using electricity to just raise a heavy mass then as that lowers it can produce power. It seems that would be cheap to build at scale with the chance for almost unlimited storage. I have to assume there would be a more than 50% loss through the process, hope someone on hn can comment. Maybe it's not worth it when you can tap in…

Not worth it, easier to scale up battery manufacturing (which the world also needs for all vehicles to transition to electrification).

https://youtu.be/iGGOjD_OtAM

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#63

Post by spoonjim » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:04 AM UTC

dcsan wrote: post #61

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s about 100GW of solar generation in ERCOT’s interconnect queue at the moment. If there is uncertainty, utility scale developers aren’t signaling it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32071998 > As of 30 September [2021] developers had 100.3GW of solar capacity in the queue, 42.4GW of utility-scale battery storage, 22.5GW of wind, 13.5GW of natural gas and minor amounts of other technologies such as biomass.…

Since batteries are always the issue... How inefficient is mechanical storage? For example using electricity to just raise a heavy mass then as that lowers it can produce power. It seems that would be cheap to build at scale with the chance for almost unlimited storage. I have to assume there would be a more than 50% loss through the process, hope someone on hn can comment. Maybe it's not worth it when you can tap in…

This system is currently only cost-effective with water, and only where you have a natural place to put it (i.e. a crater on top of a mountain vs. building a tank on a tower). Constructing a greenfield mechanical apparatus is too expensive for the energy stored.

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#64

Post by mjevans » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:07 AM UTC

newaccount2021 wrote: post #6

HN is obsessed with the TX power grid....why?

A large number of fabs and other manufacturing facilities exist there.

Texas has had several power failure related disasters in recent years; which have cost many lives and much value, as well as caused shocks to the rest of the US.

Much of the rest of the US does not have those issues, or has them in only very small predictable circumstances, mostly caused E.G. by huge windstorms (trees), earthquakes, fires, other 'natural disasters'. Climate generally not regarded as a natural disaster since it's something that should theoretically be planned for. Even the windstorm example, for metro areas power should not go out. It's only poorly managed rural areas that tend to go off the grid.

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#65

Post by wereHamster » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:07 AM UTC

dcsan wrote: post #61

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s about 100GW of solar generation in ERCOT’s interconnect queue at the moment. If there is uncertainty, utility scale developers aren’t signaling it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32071998 > As of 30 September [2021] developers had 100.3GW of solar capacity in the queue, 42.4GW of utility-scale battery storage, 22.5GW of wind, 13.5GW of natural gas and minor amounts of other technologies such as biomass.…

Since batteries are always the issue... How inefficient is mechanical storage? For example using electricity to just raise a heavy mass then as that lowers it can produce power. It seems that would be cheap to build at scale with the chance for almost unlimited storage. I have to assume there would be a more than 50% loss through the process, hope someone on hn can comment. Maybe it's not worth it when you can tap in…

People are actively researching and working on kinetic energy storage systems, for example https://www.energyvault.com/ev1

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#66

Post by viraptor » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:08 AM UTC

newaccount2021 wrote: post #6

HN is obsessed with the TX power grid....why?

It's an interesting case of one area trying to stay independent and deregulated, then failing in basic areas like low costs, and maintenance, leading to serious issues in recent winters. With certain media trying to turn the management failures into an anti-wind campaign thus not making things better.

Honestly it's an interesting trainwreck to observe from far away. Shame that it affects real people locally.

In case you're not familiar with Ercot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Reliability_Council_o...

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#67

Post by banana_giraffe » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:17 AM UTC

hk1337 wrote: post #10

imrehg wrote: post #5

I was looking at the source code linked from dashboard, and surprised a bit that it's a gist, rather than a repository. Is it just to facilitate discussions on the code? Otherwise it feels a bit ad hoc that way, wouldn't consider a gist with this many files more ergonomic compared to a repository. Also, trying to follow to the data source of the Ercot website https://www.ercot.com/ I get blocked with things like this…

I think they block anything outside the US.

They also seem to allow Canada .. and Sydney, at least out of all of the AWS regions.

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#68

Post by rtpg » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:18 AM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #55

maxerickson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar capacity in Texas tripled since last summer . https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/21/heat-ener...

What does it take to setup a decent size solar farm? There’s a lot of cheap, flat, easy to develop land in far west Texas (Brewster county).

One thing I wonder about is how far can you be from population centers in practice? I remember hearing that you want to be close or else you lose a lot to transmission but that might not be at all true

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#69

Post by Hamuko » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #60

Chilko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this really interesting as well as here in New Zealand that relationship is inverted - we don't typically have residential air conditioning yet use a lot of electric heating so our peak demand is in the mornings and evenings, and most intense in the winter. This makes the business case for solar a lot trickier here as the periods of max generation (daytime during the summer) coincides with low demand and subs…

People need to realise that not all forms of renewable generation are good solutions in all parts of the world, just because they're renewable. I hate the "green energy" cults that shout you down for suggesting solar might be bad idea for these sorts of reasons.

Well, bad idea for now. If we can start storing up solar energy for the winter, then it might start making a lot of sense. The sand battery that can store thermal energy for months seems pretty interesting in this aspect.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520

Re: Datadog dashboard for the Texas power grid

#70

Post by blamazon » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 6:06 AM UTC

Chilko wrote: post #45

dvasdekis wrote: post #14

The surprising inference from me, as an energy layman, is that solar output coincides with periods of peak demand. Obviously this is seasonally adjusted, but in an era when the Saudis have solar contracts being supplied for $10USD/MWh [0], the potential profits for a solar provider at periods of peak demand seem more than sufficient to encourage investment, especially with interest rates still at a historic low for b…

I found this really interesting as well as here in New Zealand that relationship is inverted - we don't typically have residential air conditioning yet use a lot of electric heating so our peak demand is in the mornings and evenings, and most intense in the winter. This makes the business case for solar a lot trickier here as the periods of max generation (daytime during the summer) coincides with low demand and subs…

Doesn't New Zealand have tons of hydro? Is it possible summer solar could be used to pump up a mountain reservoir somewhere with that energy sold 6 months later at a premium?