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Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

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Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#61

Post by ncmncm »

ravenstine wrote: post #54
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #5

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

What are your ideas for improving public transit? Because the way I see it, public transit suffers from issues that are hard to overcome and are exacerbated by globalized societies. Public transit simply can't take you everywhere. Even when I e lived in areas with dense bus routes, how one would get to a stop was often a question. Buses are relatively slow and impede traffic, especially in larger cities. More trains…

Buses do not impede traffic. Cars impede bus traffic.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#62

Post by ncmncm »

majormajor wrote: post #19
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #5

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

Is it weird? I think there's two big things that explain why it's not weird: 1) How expensive and disruptive to build would "good transit" actually be? 2) How much do people appreciate more direct point-to-point transportation? This incident occured in a town of 51,000 people with a density of 1,700/sq mile, that looks like a suburb of Salt Lake City which itself has 200,000 people with a density of 1,800/sq mile. Wh…

The "self-driving" cars would be piggy-backing on the massive subsidies provided to driver-driving cars and infrastructure demanding them, siphoned away from public transit.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#63

Post by ncmncm »

skybrian wrote: post #13
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #5

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

It doesn't seem like all that many people are all that crazy about self-driving cars? It's a frequent topic of conversation because some companies have invested a lot of money in it. But people express fairly negative sentiments about it. Meanwhile, huge amounts of money is spent on improving mass transit. It's fairly conventional wisdom that it's a good thing. (The money doesn't seem to go very far though, compared…

Huge amounts are not (wholly-legal urban tunnel fraud aside) spent on public transit.

Huge amounts are instead siphoned from public transit to shore up car makers' and suburb real estate profits.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#64

Post by Panzer04 »

ravenstine wrote: post #54
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #5

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

What are your ideas for improving public transit? Because the way I see it, public transit suffers from issues that are hard to overcome and are exacerbated by globalized societies. Public transit simply can't take you everywhere. Even when I e lived in areas with dense bus routes, how one would get to a stop was often a question. Buses are relatively slow and impede traffic, especially in larger cities. More trains…

"de facto homeless shelters"? wtf? Is that genuinely a concern in some places?

Cars have an edge on transit because orders of magnitude more money is spent on the road system and on the vehicles than is spent on PT. Despite that, PT tends to be faster in cities, where it's simply not possible to jam more cars in (it turns out only carrying one person per car is a truly massive capacity constraint.

Cars will probably always be better in low density areas, as it's not reasonable to serve all areas with reasonable quality of service, but in any kind of reasonable high density environment properly separated PT (ie. not lumped in with car traffic) will have huge capacity and speed advantages.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#65

Post by ncmncm »

mrhands556 wrote: post #60
ncmncm wrote: post #50

"Full Self Crashing". What will it take before we indict Musk for reckless endangerment, and for fraud? What will it take for the NTSB and FTC to issue a recall, and require Tesla to openly refund all the money collected for it?

Do you have statistics behind these claims?

Do you have statistics refuting them?

You can go on YT and step through self-crashing videos frame by frame.

The burden is on them to show it is safe before they turn it on.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#66

Post by 0xedd »

ncmncm wrote: post #55
shepherdjerred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never accidentally turned onto a one way street when driving somewhere unfamiliar? It has definitely happened to me a couple of times. Humans make mistakes.

FSD has no excuse for it: FSD has a map open in front of it at all times. It knows which roads are one-way before it gets to them.

So, 100% or not at all? No.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#67

Post by 0xedd »

ncmncm wrote: post #65
mrhands556 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have statistics behind these claims?

Do you have statistics refuting them? You can go on YT and step through self-crashing videos frame by frame. The burden is on them to show it is safe before they turn it on.

Hah! I see propaganda has captured you nicely. Cancel culture cuisine; it's enough to claim someone is guilty to indict him. It's his responsibility to prove innocence!

A tangent; Tesla did show their self driving is safe. Doesn't mean it has no bugs.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#68

Post by belltaco »

ncmncm wrote: post #55
shepherdjerred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never accidentally turned onto a one way street when driving somewhere unfamiliar? It has definitely happened to me a couple of times. Humans make mistakes.

FSD has no excuse for it: FSD has a map open in front of it at all times. It knows which roads are one-way before it gets to them.

Why are you assuming that the vehicle was using FSD at the time?

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#69

Post by ncmncm »

simonh wrote: post #6
josephcsible wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver is indeed still liable (since it's only a level 2 system), but that seems like the kind of thing that a lot of people would lie about anyway.

They wouldn’t get away with it though as the car logs that sort of thing.

Teslas, infamously, turn off autopilot right before a crash.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#70

Post by mrhands556 »

ncmncm wrote: post #65
mrhands556 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have statistics behind these claims?

Do you have statistics refuting them? You can go on YT and step through self-crashing videos frame by frame. The burden is on them to show it is safe before they turn it on.

I assume that every accident like this involving autopilot is blasted all over every news outlet. This happens multiple times every day for non autopilot cars, which gets little to no coverage. It’s just something we accept as a society.
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