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The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

cwilso.com

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Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#61

Post by ukulele »

makapuf wrote: post #34
leephillips wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, each app increases your attack surface and reduces your security. I only install apps that when I need the functionality and can’t get it from a website. For everything else, I prefer working through the browser, which already has defined permissions and can apply a certain amount of sandboxing.

It's high time we have native local sandboxed and easy to install apps again. Maybe through browser for ui api if we don't know anything else, maybe using a store. I'm not sure somebody has to watch everything I do on a pc.

I don't think you're being sarcastic, but this is where web applications are already. You can do this with the browser as the sandbox.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#62

Post by MaxBarraclough »

oblak wrote: post #50
ryaniscool wrote: post #20

This article is all over the place. The debate is over. The web won. You can see that by the way popular websites will try and force you to install their apps. That’s because their web experience is perfectly competent to scratch the users itch. They are forced to artificially cripple their mobile web experience to drive app installs. There is a strong niche left to native. I’m thinking of things like creative tools.…

Indeed. Discord is guilty of this. You can't make calls on the mobile site because there's an app for that. Hit the "request desktop site" and boom, the button is not disabled for arbitrary reason.

Sometimes a mobile website will be deliberately stripped of a long-standing feature just to pressure users to install the native app.

Years ago Facebook removed the instant-messaging feature from the mobile version of their website.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#63

Post by bobthepanda »

zhte415 wrote: post #44
Supermancho wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The web won. I don't think so. Either way the statements are rife with soft terminology, but I'll use raw traffic as my metric for dominance in the functional space. https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d... . The majority of traffic is mobile and apps still rule that platform due to both a superior experience and better interfaces. The trend is clear and ongoing, so I'm not sure why people th…

I think it's simpler than that: An app icon on a user's screen is the equivalent of a desktop bookmark icon shortcut circa 1998, like 'browser toolbar helpers' would 'helpfully install' - things that would more often be seen as malware today. Notifications pushed to the user the equivalent of constant marketing from subscribed email lists. Constant ~~marketing~~ 'experience'. Pretty close to spam today; such email is…

I don't know that a desktop icon is really considered malware. People still have tons of desktop shortcuts if they use a PC, and don't select the option to not have it even when provided it.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#64

Post by depressedpanda »

spideymans wrote: post #48

We’ve been hearing about web being the future of mobile apps for at least 15 years now. Yet alas, mobile users still spend the vast majority of their time in native apps. What’s going wrong here? I feel like we’re spinning our tires in the mud.

> Yet alas, mobile users still spend the vast majority of their time in native apps. What’s going wrong here?

Easy:

- Apple only allows one browser -- their own -- on iOS

- Apple uses this control to cripple PWAs on iOS

- Apple's iPhone market share is significant enough that if Safari/iOS doesn't support something, businesses won't spend time on using it

E.g.: chat/communication apps cannot be written as PWAs, since Safari on iOS still doesn't support notifications.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#65

Post by jrkrk8jdjf »

ryaniscool wrote: post #20

This article is all over the place. The debate is over. The web won. You can see that by the way popular websites will try and force you to install their apps. That’s because their web experience is perfectly competent to scratch the users itch. They are forced to artificially cripple their mobile web experience to drive app installs. There is a strong niche left to native. I’m thinking of things like creative tools.…

No post body was provided.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#66

Post by ansgri »

bob1029 wrote: post #7
seydor wrote: post #5

The mobile web does need a rethink. Imo, 'responsive' designs can be a mess that dont fit well to either desktop or mobile. There are really 2 use cases: mobile portrait mode and everything else - screens are big enough now that it doesnt make sense to have a tablet version. Second, we need to start using built-in browser inputs instead of downloading megabytes of JS to render something like a datepicker . There are…

> There are really 2 use cases: mobile portrait mode and everything else I mostly agree. I am currently tasked with building a brand new mobile/desktop web app from scratch, and this is the path I have chosen as well. The breakpoint I am working with right now is 980px. Seems to be a goldilocks setting in 2022.

980 > 1920 / 2, making split-screen view on a typical laptop very annoying. What’s the reasoning behind this number. Like, make it 900 and drastically more cases are covered.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#67

Post by superkuh »

> with re-engagement features like push notifications being added daily, the web is now a viable platform for engaging user experiences.

Websites are at least supposedly are sandboxed so they are not as much of a risk as running native binaries. But this is getting worse and worse though as browsers expose more and more of their host operating system's functionality. The benefits of using a website instead of a native app are quickly disappearing, while the drawbacks have only been somewhat mitigated. We're getting to the point where browsers are worthy of the decades old criticism Emacs has received. They have eventually become an OS with many fine features - simply lacking a good web browser.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#68

Post by lolinder »

lampshades wrote: post #36
ryaniscool wrote: post #20

This article is all over the place. The debate is over. The web won. You can see that by the way popular websites will try and force you to install their apps. That’s because their web experience is perfectly competent to scratch the users itch. They are forced to artificially cripple their mobile web experience to drive app installs. There is a strong niche left to native. I’m thinking of things like creative tools.…

Pretty sure companies force their app for monetization reasons and because they know it’s a better experience and want you to see that. I remember when Reddit started throwing the app in my face everyday until I eventually downloaded it. Now I always open for an app. Even for newspapers. The web experience on mobile blows.

Companies don't "know it's a better experience" and then push customers to use the app. They know that apps are easier to monetize and therefore ensure that the app is more pleasant than the mobile web site. When that falls to drive enough people to convert, they start stripping features that worked fine before. When even that isn't enough, they resort to popups every time you land until you finally give up.

Your experience with Reddit isn't evidence that mobile web is bad, it's evidence that companies like Reddit have huge financial incentives to make you think mobile web is bad.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#69

Post by boopmaster »

lampshades wrote: post #36
ryaniscool wrote: post #20

This article is all over the place. The debate is over. The web won. You can see that by the way popular websites will try and force you to install their apps. That’s because their web experience is perfectly competent to scratch the users itch. They are forced to artificially cripple their mobile web experience to drive app installs. There is a strong niche left to native. I’m thinking of things like creative tools.…

Pretty sure companies force their app for monetization reasons and because they know it’s a better experience and want you to see that. I remember when Reddit started throwing the app in my face everyday until I eventually downloaded it. Now I always open for an app. Even for newspapers. The web experience on mobile blows.

The web experience on mobile is bad, largely because reddit makes it bad. The overlays and prompts to push web visitors over to mobile/native is in itself atrocious, hostile design.

Re: The web is not poor man’s native (2015)

#70

Post by pixel_tracing »

depressedpanda wrote: post #64
spideymans wrote: post #48

We’ve been hearing about web being the future of mobile apps for at least 15 years now. Yet alas, mobile users still spend the vast majority of their time in native apps. What’s going wrong here? I feel like we’re spinning our tires in the mud.

> Yet alas, mobile users still spend the vast majority of their time in native apps. What’s going wrong here? Easy: - Apple only allows one browser -- their own -- on iOS - Apple uses this control to cripple PWAs on iOS - Apple's iPhone market share is significant enough that if Safari/iOS doesn't support something, businesses won't spend time on using it E.g.: chat/communication apps cannot be written as PWAs, since…

Apple does not only allow one browser you can download Chrome or Firebox from the App Store
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