Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

grumpygamer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 280 posts

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#61

Post by kemayo »

izacus wrote: post #42
rvieira wrote: post #37

I played the original ones and I would have preferred a pixel art closer to the original. That being said, I subscribe what Ron and many people here said. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There's no need for all vitriol. I will buy it the same, since for me Monkey Island was always about much more than the graphics. On top of everything, this is the actual _creator_ of all the games and stories' vision. It's not l…

Pixel art like which of the originals? Monkey Island 3 and 4 had nothing remotely resembling pixel art and were still beautiful.

For Return in particular it does make sense to compare it to 1 and 2, since Return seems to be picking the series up where Gilbert left it and ignoring what others did since then.

(For what it's worth, I remember Curse causing some controversy when it came out, because of that shift to the toon style from the original pixel aesthetic.)

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#62

Post by michaelgrafl »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #47
chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

Being disappointed and being rude are two different things.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#63

Post by Beltalowda »

> Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for.

I sometimes end up on Steam and the like when I search for "some-game pass level-I-find-difficult", or "some-game Linux". Almost every single thread I've seen there starts with someone asking a fairly reasonable question ("I'm having trouble with X, any tips?", "Are the developers planning to release this game on Linux? Thanks!") and quickly devolving in to a complete shitshow ("you're a lazy fake gamer if you can't pass X, it's so easy!", "lol Linux only for autistic nerds").

To say I'm not a fan of the "gamer community" is an understatement. I'm sure the majority of people who play games are nice folks, but the online spaces are dominates by obnoxious loudmouths more than any other community I've seen.

Now, I have to admit I'm also not wildly impressed by the art style of the new MI game, but you know, it's Ron's game; I can take it or leave it... (and since I'm fairly sure the writing will be as good as the earlier games I don't even mind all that much, as long as it doesn't have the horrendous controls from the 4th and 5th games I'll be happy, furthermore, I'd rather people try something new instead of merely regurgitating what was done 30 years ago, even if I'm personally not a huge fan of it).

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#64

Post by jjulius »

zac23or wrote: post #38
chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

> Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen True, but Some open source communities are good candidates for "most entitled consumers". > I've seen it on HN also I will ever remember the launch of Dropbox here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

The positive-to-negative comment ratio in that thread is overwhelmingly in favor of positive. A couple of the top-voted posts are more critical, sure, but once you scroll past those it's full of support and inquisitiveness.

Edit: Even the person who posted the top-ranked comment, with the more negative tone, ended their follow-up response with, "All of your feedback was well-thought-out and appreciated; I only hope that I was able to give you a sneak preview of some of the potential criticisms you may receive. Best of luck to you!".

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#65

Post by kemayo »

karaterobot wrote: post #27

The healthiest thing for a creative person to do is ignore reviews, and not pay attention to comments about your work. Mentally, and emotionally, and creatively, I mean. Your job is to make things that other people can appreciate, or not, but you don't need to listen to them if you don't want to. Active community engagement is a fairly recent phenomenon, and it's a marketing technique, not an artistic one. I'm sure i…

I think Gilbert got hit hard by this because he's been running this personal blog since 2004, and suddenly getting a flood of shitty comments can't be fun.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#66

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

It's not just gamers. The Internet has spawned a culture of "no consequences for letting your Id come out to play."

If I walk up to Big Bad John, and call him a rude name, he will knock my teeth out.

That's called "immediate negative feedback." Consequence immediately follows action.

On the Internet (although this kind of thing predates the Internet. The Internet just commoditized it), this negative feedback loop is removed. The response is just more bad words, and a good troll learns to actually savor this type of response (I know of what I speak. I was once ... not so well-behaved ... on the Internet –even pre-WWW).

Positive feedback is treated as "weak," or "syrupy" (to be fair, a lot of it is like Cute Overload[0]), and folks who try to remain positive are usually relentlessly attacked. I know of this, because I try to remain positive, and not "go there," when confronted by negativity. I assume I come across as "Snotty"[1].

Better than the alternative; believe you me...

When I hear people defending extreme hate jockeys, they always say "[S]He's just saying what everyone is thinking."

There's a reason that we don't say everything we think.

[0] https://twitter.com/cuteoverload?lang=en

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP_gV2cWntg (James Hong's greatest role).

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#67

Post by generalk »

adamrezich wrote: post #32

I like Ron Gilbert. I don't like all of the games he's worked on but I like most of them. I think it's great that he's making this new game and he's doing it how he wants to. I will likely check it out when it's released and there's a good chance that I'll enjoy it. all of that said, I have a hard time understanding this situation. when you've been making games for decades and you've watched the Internet grow from no…

  > tl;dr I can't understand getting mad at the Internet for being the Internet 
  > in 2022, it will never get better, if anything it will only get worse [...]
If I may provide an alternate tl;dr to your comment: "People are being absolute rude, disrespectful assholes; which is absolutely fine. Ron Gilbert asked for this abuse by making things. The real issue is that he disabled comments on his own blog, where people should be firmly allowed and encouraged to shit on his work."

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#68

Post by rob74 »

izacus wrote: post #42
rvieira wrote: post #37

I played the original ones and I would have preferred a pixel art closer to the original. That being said, I subscribe what Ron and many people here said. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There's no need for all vitriol. I will buy it the same, since for me Monkey Island was always about much more than the graphics. On top of everything, this is the actual _creator_ of all the games and stories' vision. It's not l…

Pixel art like which of the originals? Monkey Island 3 and 4 had nothing remotely resembling pixel art and were still beautiful.

Like Ron Gilbert wrote in one of his previous blog posts, Monkey Island 1 and 2 were (what is today called) pixel art because pixel art was "state of the art" at that time. He already (co-)created a retro pixel art game with Thimbleweed Park, no need to do it again...

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#69

Post by Beltalowda »

chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

> I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism.

I said this a while ago as well[1], but there's a strong bias towards people who are unhappy with $something (for any value of $something). If you think everything is just great then you don't actually all that much to say beyond "hey, looks great!" Sometimes you can expand that to a paragraph of two about what you like, but overall it's hard to write a substantive comment. But if you're not happy with something then it's much easier to write a paragraph or two about what you're unhappy with.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31454200

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#70

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

stuckinhell wrote: post #52
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the other thread about this, someone brought up the colloquially named "Zelda Effect". It is most evident when reviewing Wind Waker, which used cartoony cell-shaded graphics: contemporary comments featured quite a lot of vitriol over that decision, but the game is now fondly remembered as one of the best entrants in the series.

I don't think that's exactly true. Nintendo did give people what they wanted with Twilight Princess. Both of those games had around 9.5 - 9.6 ratings, and the realistic Twilight Princess was the best selling Zelda until Breath of the Wild came out. I think a very loud minority likes Wind Waker, but sales show something a bit different.

That analysis discounts that the GameCube[0], on which WW was released exclusively until the Wii U[1] HD remake, had vastly lower user count than the incredibly popular Wii[2], which had a Twilight Princess release simultaneously with the GCN.

[0] 21.4M units sold

[1] Even lower, only 13.5M units

[2] 101.6M units

Post reply on HN