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Vim 9.0

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Re: Vim 9.0

#61

Post by teilo »

tomtomtom777 wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #20

As Vim9 comes alive, and Neovim community focuses on Lua plugins instead, it seems this release is finally the update that will put a hard branch on the two communities. Up until now, most plugins (except Lua-only ones of course) have worked in both editors, but it doesn't seem like Vim9 will be supported in Neovim, so I guess what people go with now, will decide what you might stick with in the future (unless you're…

Although I am currently tip-toeing on NeoVim, I still feel this is a horrible break-up. Yes, Open Source simply allows you to branch whenever you're unhappy with the original but this comes at a cost for the community. The cost of having two diverging programs to deal with. In this case, the motivation was simply insufficient. Some people wanted vimscript+lua instead of vimscript. They felt the code was too difficult…

Vim was stagnant until Neovim became a threat. And it was never about Lua. It was about the need for async. Bram ignored the community, and so the community responded, and made something better.

Re: Vim 9.0

#62

Post by Macha »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #9
the_duke wrote: post #3

I'm curious how many users are now using vim versus neovim. I switched a few years ago,and ever since Lua plugin support the Neovim ecosystem is thriving.

This comment thread on the previous conversation has a lot of good replies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31908731 A few highlights: * "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" * People don't like Lua (or just simply prefer VimScript) * Divergence over time means that they are not still compatible.

> * People don't like Lua (or just simply prefer VimScript)

Lua is not my favourite language, but I'd sure take it over vimscript.

Re: Vim 9.0

#63

Post by Beltalowda »

alex_smart wrote: post #37
bcrescimanno wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment thread on the previous conversation has a lot of good replies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31908731 A few highlights: * "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" * People don't like Lua (or just simply prefer VimScript) * Divergence over time means that they are not still compatible.

> People don't like Lua (or just simply prefer VimScript) :shock:

I prefer VimScript over Lua. VimScript is really not that bad of a language and I think its deficiencies have been greatly exaggerated, and Vim9Script fixed most of the oddities that were in there (e.g. '1' == 1 and such, JS/PHP-style).

Lua, on the other hand, won't give me an error if I mistype a variable name, and the ecosystem doesn't really have good static analysis tools to catch these kind of silly errors. There's some other things I don't like either, like how "arrays" are really just hashmaps, as well as some other things. The whole versioning story wrt. compatibility is also annoying (it's basically a Python 2/3 story with every single Lua version).

It's not Lua is horrible, but the fawning over it from some Neovim people is something I always found curious, like it's a fantastic brilliant language. Meh, I found it quite average overall, at best. And if I look at some Lua vimrcs or plugins then it's all a lot more verbose and awkward than VimScript.

Not that VimScript is perfect by any means, but overall I find it's quite a decent DSL for an editor.

Re: Vim 9.0

#64

Post by ben174 »

billti wrote: post #40
Diederich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using vi/vim on a near daily basis for 34 years now and this is the only thing I put in ~/.vimrc: set tabstop=4 set expandtab set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever set shiftround syntax on EDIT: Just for some fun archeology, I google searched on the 3rd line, 'set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever' because I very dimly recall copying most of my standard set (minus the syntax on bit) from someone else a long lon…

Similar, but you can do most of those in one line! I also turn on line numbers and map "jk" to Escape in insert mode: set expandtab shiftwidth=4 softtabstop=4 tabstop=4 syntax on set number inoremap jk

I tried that 'jk' thing way back, and I seem to recall it introducing some lag. Like a few milliseconds so it could process and see if you were hitting the followup key. Just enough to be annoying.

Re: Vim 9.0

#66

Post by imron »

bayindirh wrote: post #12
threatofrain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No line numbers? @_@

It is already present on the lower right by default. Why lose a column?

It makes it easy to jump to other lines on your screen, e.g. maybe you want to split out half the code from a loop to another function. You can't use di{ to delete everything in the {} because you only want half of it, but if you can see that the loop contents end on line 98 you can go d98G

Re: Vim 9.0

#68

Post by imron »

Diederich wrote: post #6
givemeethekeys wrote: post #4

I'm curious: - How deep a rabbit hole do most people go down when setting up their vim / neovim environment? Apart from setting up a preferred color and language specific tab spacing and highlighting, I don't need more, but I've seen some pretty fancy setups. Out of the different plugins, which would you never operate without?

I've been using vi/vim on a near daily basis for 34 years now and this is the only thing I put in ~/.vimrc: set tabstop=4 set expandtab set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever set shiftround syntax on EDIT: Just for some fun archeology, I google searched on the 3rd line, 'set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever' because I very dimly recall copying most of my standard set (minus the syntax on bit) from someone else a long lon…

Almost identical to mine, except I set ai and nu, and wasn't setting shiftround (because I didn't know about it until today!)

Re: Vim 9.0

#69

Post by deadbunny »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #59
tomtomtom777 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I am currently tip-toeing on NeoVim, I still feel this is a horrible break-up. Yes, Open Source simply allows you to branch whenever you're unhappy with the original but this comes at a cost for the community. The cost of having two diverging programs to deal with. In this case, the motivation was simply insufficient. Some people wanted vimscript+lua instead of vimscript. They felt the code was too difficult…

I think Neovim had a whole bunch of other reasons to split. I'm pretty sure that Neovim's server mode, which allows it to be used with other editor frontends, is simply not present in vim. For me this is the whole reason to use Neovim. But I think it also natively supports tree sitter and/or LSPs, which really improve the coding experience. Anyway iirc Neovim wanted these features integrated into Vim itself and only…

And when Bram did finally add async support rather than take the neovim work and us that he did it in a specifically non compatible way. I don't know the ins and outs but as an observer that does come across as a little petty.

Re: Vim 9.0

#70

Post by akerl_ »

tomtomtom777 wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #20

As Vim9 comes alive, and Neovim community focuses on Lua plugins instead, it seems this release is finally the update that will put a hard branch on the two communities. Up until now, most plugins (except Lua-only ones of course) have worked in both editors, but it doesn't seem like Vim9 will be supported in Neovim, so I guess what people go with now, will decide what you might stick with in the future (unless you're…

Although I am currently tip-toeing on NeoVim, I still feel this is a horrible break-up. Yes, Open Source simply allows you to branch whenever you're unhappy with the original but this comes at a cost for the community. The cost of having two diverging programs to deal with. In this case, the motivation was simply insufficient. Some people wanted vimscript+lua instead of vimscript. They felt the code was too difficult…

Nobody needs to justify forking a project to other people.
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