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Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

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Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#61

Post by betaby »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #25

Consider: Upward pressure on our salaries is in large part driven by the compensation packages given at Google and Facebook, etc. Those compensation packages can be that high because they've tapped into (and in large part monopolized) absolute firehoses of revenue in the form of online advertising. Those companies do "other" things than advertising, but advertising makes up the vast majority of their revenue. Without…

Unlikely it´s FAANG related. Upward pressure is indeed supply/demand right now, even in countries where FAANG has no offices at all.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#62

Post by mkl95 »

If I feed my talented monkey 1/100 of the bananas he grabs for me, some hungrier monkeys will argue I'm overfeeding him. I may be greedy and replace him, or keep him because I'm rich enough that it makes a negligible difference.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#64

Post by closeparen »

fartsucker69 wrote: post #10

I find his response about $400k paid people and marx a bit odd. More money going to the people actually doing the work vs. the top would certainly be right up Marx ally. I assume that guy is among those who views everyone earning above average at any time as part of the problem.

It's funny. Although the modern inequality discourse takes some spiritual influence from Marx's concern about capital's profits, its actual focus seems to be much more on wage disparities between different kinds of workers.

And yes, some workers earning significantly above average are literally, mechanically, the problem of income inequality. Return on capital is mostly not income; taxing unrealized gains is a fringe idea. In the current moment, worker vs. worker inequality (including worker vs. manager) is much more salient than worker vs. owner. Even if you think of yourself as aligned with Marx.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#65

Post by jelliclesfarm »

fayalargeau wrote: post #33
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #28

What does the tweet say? I am blocked by @typesfast. Can’t find the tweet on the browser page before the login prompt appears.

"It might be that many software business models don't work when engineers cost $400k/year." followed by "TIL some software engineers making $400k view themselves as Marx's proletariat." I'm getting the feeling that most devs here agree that SWEs don't need to make that much.

thanks. it is certainly a layered tweet.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#66

Post by missingcolours »

Jugurtha wrote: post #60

Probing questions, by me, here: https://twitter.com/jugurthahadjar/status/153713590102484582... The person claims to have neither salary[0] nor equity[1]. - [0]: https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1536703876505735168 , "I don't take a salary". - [1]: https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1536735397644050432 , "I also dont earn any equity for working here."

He says he doesn't earn equity, not that he doesn't have any. He's the founder of his company, he probably has quite a bit of equity.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#67

Post by Jugurtha »

missingcolours wrote: post #66
Jugurtha wrote: post #60

Probing questions, by me, here: https://twitter.com/jugurthahadjar/status/153713590102484582... The person claims to have neither salary[0] nor equity[1]. - [0]: https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1536703876505735168 , "I don't take a salary". - [1]: https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1536735397644050432 , "I also dont earn any equity for working here."

He says he doesn't earn equity, not that he doesn't have any. He's the founder of his company, he probably has quite a bit of equity.

Hence my subsequent tweets taking that into consideration. I was arguing to the strongest position of their tweet with regards to the no-equity/no-salary thing.

People often use "not earn equity" where the key word is "earn" and the short-cut is "additional" equity for demagogical, bull-shit, or con-manny reasons when they already had played the "no-salary" card. Don't ask me how I know.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#68

Post by filoleg »

saagarjha wrote: post #18
filoleg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a random senior dev at a FAANG. Can't speak for all of them, but that's definitely not uncommon at Meta/Google. And you are certainly gonna shoot above that number at L6.

If you’re at Google you should be approaching that number at L5, really.

Yep, agreed, that's definitely very doable at L5. I just decided to be a bit conservative with my estimate by looking at levels.fyi first, because I expected someone in replies to bring it up as a counterargument.

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#69

Post by ellen364 »

radarsat1 wrote: post #30

I'm frankly super confused about salaries right now. Currently job hunting in Europe and the other day when a recruiter asked how much I was looking for I gave my current salary as a minimum of 65 euros/h and the recruiter kind of chuckled and told me that if I'm a good match I could ask for like 90. Okay, sounds great. So a few days later I was having an initial interview for a senior ML position and when asked how…

Recruitment is bizarre right now. I chat to recruiters sometimes and in the last few months have specifically asked about salaries in the UK. Essentially, “What’s the going rate for a web dev with 5 years experience?” The answers have ranged from “£45k-55k” to “£100k-130k”. The most common response seems to be “£70k-80k”. And everyone who’s answered seemed confident they know “the market rate”. Sometimes people even laugh incredulously if I tell them the ranges given by other people.

Tying in with the original post, what companies pay seems to be as much about the company’s business model and profit margin as it is about the developer.

Thinking about the dreaded “What salary are you looking for?” question, I wonder if it’s worth specifically asking the manager / recruiter about the salary range. E.g. “Other companies I’ve spoken to are offering £n-m. What’s the salary range for this position?”

Re: Is 400k/yr overpaid for a SWE?

#70

Post by cactus2093 »

radarsat1 wrote: post #52
namaria wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, a value per hour in Europe tends to imply contract/freelance arrangement, where you need to get a VAT number, liability insurance and have basically none of the labor rights regular employees have. So I think the confusion is due to the fact that the interviewer interpreted as you expecting a full time regular employment contract, which gives you plenty of legal protection. In that case I have seen…

really appreciate the numbers, thanks. Indeed 65 is what I said I make as a freelancer, tried to explain that I would have different expectations as an employee but I had no idea what number to say, so this is very helpful. That said I find it crazy how big the difference is on these two conditions and am struggling a bit now to justify why I would want to go back to being an employee. Maybe I'll drop the idea. On th…

It's a learning experience! Don't feel bad, now you've learned a good lesson for future interviews.

> That said I find it crazy how big the difference is on these two conditions and am struggling a bit now to justify why I would want to go back to being an employee

As an American, I gotta say it seems like the benefits of being a full-time employee in Europe only really make sense if you plan on slacking off. It's very difficult to fire you as a full-time employee (at least in France which I am somewhat familiar with). You can skate by for years doing very little work if you want. If you are hard-working and want to deliver high quality work, I think you might be better off staying as a contractor. Or trying to get a job & a visa to come work in the US if you have any opportunities to.

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