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Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

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Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#61

Post by emacsen »

cplusplusfellow wrote: post #25
i80and wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely common, even default in the US in my experience, to not have vent fans not actually... vent. As a renter, I don't really get a choice in the matter. Opening a window significantly is also pretty unfeasible most of the year.

Do you also have a gas stove? I’ve lived in lots of places that have unvented blowers but none of them had gas. Would be against code in almost every city in America.

I had a blower that recirculated with a gas stove in NYC, in a newish (2008 I believe) building.

New construction in NYC bans gas stoves.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#62

Post by vehemenz »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #7
philips wrote: post #4

Relatedly I found this video on electric kettles vs gas stove efficiency for heating water pretty illuminating too: https://youtu.be/_yMMTVVJI4c?t=763 The summary is that a cheap electric kettle can boil water way faster and with far less wasted energy than a stove top kettle.

That seems pretty obvious from their construction. I don’t know anyone that uses a stove top kettle. It’s unfortunate that in the US our electric kettles are much slower than in the U.K.

I use both. Stove top kettles are less efficient, but they have a few advantages over electric kettles. They:

- work when power is unavailable (outages, camping, etc.)

- are more or less indestructible

- don't take up counter space

I have one of those big 4L Zojirushi electric kettles that I keep plugged in for 8-10 hours a day. Sometimes I will use the stove top kettle for supplementary boiling water when people in my household are using the electric, or I don't want to start a reboil cycle or take too much at once.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#63

Post by maccard »

cameldrv wrote: post #47
loudmax wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A generator powering the grid for the electric company is going to capture a far greater portion of the fossil fuel energy than the gas range in your kitchen. There will be some loss transmitting electrical power from the generator to your house, but usually less loss proportionally than than energy wasted above a gas range. As you suggest, climate-neutral renewable sources make up a tiny portion of most power grids,…

It’s probably pretty close to a wash. A gas stove is about 40% efficient. A good combined cycle has power plant is about 60%, transmission is about 90%, and an induction stove is about 85%. That gives a net efficiency of 46%.

So that's better if you're sourced by gas, and _way_ better if you're sourced by a renewable method? Looking at the national grid [0] in the UK, 40% of our energy came from gas, and most of the rest is renewable energy or nuclear. That significantly swings in favour of electric kettles.

[0] https://grid.iamkate.com/

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#64

Post by diffeomorphism »

solarkraft wrote: post #15
philips wrote: post #4

Relatedly I found this video on electric kettles vs gas stove efficiency for heating water pretty illuminating too: https://youtu.be/_yMMTVVJI4c?t=763 The summary is that a cheap electric kettle can boil water way faster and with far less wasted energy than a stove top kettle.

> with far less wasted energy Small nit-pick: Electricity generation itself is often very lossy. In the case of fossil sources, the energy waste is just further up the chain (with solar power too, but it matters much less).

> the energy waste is just further up the chain

Just because both are "lossy" that does not mean at all the losses are of comparable magnitude.

So, actual question: "You need X amount of gas in a power plant to generate enough energy for 1000 households to heat their water with induction" vs "You need Y amount for the same number of households using gas stoves". What is the ratio between X and Y? You claim it is about 1. Is it? Or much larger than 1 or much smaller than 1?

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#65

Post by bittercynic »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #33

Once my house has a battery large enough to where I won't end up going ballistic on my energy company for having 24+ hour power outages I am fine with moving away from gas. But I am not going to live with losing power a dozen times a year for up to a day at a time because a corporation wants my life to be the tip of the misery spear instead of their profit margins taking a hit.

When you "go ballistic" are you verbally abusing a csr in a call center somewhere who already has an unpleasant and difficult job, or finding a way to apply pressure to someone who has some power to improve the situation?

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#66

Post by maccard »

was_a_dev wrote: post #36

Does no one use a kitchen extractor fan and have a CO monitor in their kitchen?

Everyone should have a co monitor on their gas stove, but a co monitor doesn't measure air quality. If your CO monitor goes off you turn off the appliance, call your gas supplier and leave the room/building.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#67

Post by qiskit »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #5

There was a bunch of articles about this in 2020. After looking into the data my conclusion is the threat is overblown (big surprise), a large part of it is from cooking of any kind (heating produces particulates) and that if you take some basic precautions (open a window, use vent fan) the risk is very low.

Makes me wonder whether these stories are paid advertising ( by electric stove companies or whomever ) or the journalist had to write something and just winged it. I'm guessing most garbage in media is paid advertising, but who knows at this point.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#68

Post by drivebycomment »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #33

Once my house has a battery large enough to where I won't end up going ballistic on my energy company for having 24+ hour power outages I am fine with moving away from gas. But I am not going to live with losing power a dozen times a year for up to a day at a time because a corporation wants my life to be the tip of the misery spear instead of their profit margins taking a hit.

Where do you live ? Dozen times a year power outage sounds very rough.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#69

Post by lupire »

i80and wrote: post #49
cplusplusfellow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also have a gas stove? I’ve lived in lots of places that have unvented blowers but none of them had gas. Would be against code in almost every city in America.

Yep, gas stove unfortunately. I can't speak to code, but most people I talk to share this experience -- I assume there's grandfathering at play.

It's just illegal and no one complained or enforced.

Re: Gas stoves are more hazardous than we’ve been led to believe (2020)

#70

Post by tootie »

riddleronroof wrote: post #37
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #5

There was a bunch of articles about this in 2020. After looking into the data my conclusion is the threat is overblown (big surprise), a large part of it is from cooking of any kind (heating produces particulates) and that if you take some basic precautions (open a window, use vent fan) the risk is very low.

Exactly. These are opinion pieces with scary headlines. Almost nothing to back them up. Also strange to talk about developing countries having problems. They usually have chimneys. Hydrochlorides are there because of pans coated with them that burn them off. Guess what, they still end up in food no matter which heating you would use. So the problem is pans, not the heat. Cooking with fire is Lindy. And there is no ot…

That last part is definitely not true. You can char stuff with any heat. I use an electric broiler.
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