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Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

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Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#61

Post by pjmlp »

Havoc wrote: post #6

Think it is rapidly moving towards being more of a data carrier/format rather than being dead per se. Half the time you're jamming it into some cloud service anyway where you have no idea what GCP/fly/aws is using under the hood to actually run it. Meaning this discussion is more relevant to the self-hosted context. In which case I'd say containerization isn't really security. So in my mind that residual risk of the…

Indeed the proof being stuff like Kata Containers, which augment them with VMs anyway.

Personally, after dealing with Kubernetes yaml spaghetti, I rather deal with VM images, but unfortunately I don't get to dictate IT fashion.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#62

Post by he0001 »

LunaSea wrote: post #49
KronisLV wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Runs docker in a VM for you It depends: - the Hyper-V backend uses a VM for running the actual containers, which is a bit annoying because it just sits there and eats your RAM whenever it's on (technically you could enable dynamic memory for the VM, but i think it used to break) - the WSL2 backend uses the whole fancy new system that Microsoft came up with to, idk, attempt to embrace and extend Linux or something;…

And 2022 is still not the year of the Linux Desktop. Many tried and went back to OSX die to the rough corners of desktop Linux.

I’m a happy user of Linux desktop, Ubuntu. I will never go back to anything else than some other version of Linux. I can’t stand OS X anymore. I can’t even remember when I used windows the last time. I must be an idiot.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#63

Post by pjmlp »

KronisLV wrote: post #46
kristjansson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Runs docker in a VM for you, abstracts that away, confuses the hell out of new and old developers alike.

> Runs docker in a VM for you It depends: - the Hyper-V backend uses a VM for running the actual containers, which is a bit annoying because it just sits there and eats your RAM whenever it's on (technically you could enable dynamic memory for the VM, but i think it used to break) - the WSL2 backend uses the whole fancy new system that Microsoft came up with to, idk, attempt to embrace and extend Linux or something;…

Hyper-V backend also runs Windows containers, and in that case Microsoft decided to have the same docker frontend that everyone uses was better than coming up with their own CLI just for the Windows containers part.

WSL2 is no different than using Virtual Box or VMWare, now shiiped by Microsoft instead.

As others pointed out, Linux Desktop is never going to happen beyond the usual 1%, other than Android/ChromeOS workloads.

Typing this from a Asus 1215B, probably the last GNU/Linux device that I will own.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#64

Post by the8472 »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #29

Rootless podman is my first choice for using containers now, it works fantastically well in my experience. It's so much nicer to have all my container related stuff like volumes, configs, the control socket, etc. in my home directory and standard user paths vs. scattered all over the system. Permission issues with bind mounts just totally disappear when you go rootless. It's so much easier and better than the root pr…

The problem with rootless is that you don't get a native network stack since setting up bridges and veth devices still requires some elevated capabilities. But instead of running full root this could be outsourced to a helper executable with some caps set (a narrower version of suid).

> Permission issues with bind mounts just totally disappear when you go rootless.

Recent kernel versions have gained uid mapping capabilities on mounts. Hopefully future docker will make use of it. Then we can run entire containers as different users.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#65

Post by pjmlp »

KronisLV wrote: post #57
LunaSea wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 2022 is still not the year of the Linux Desktop. Many tried and went back to OSX die to the rough corners of desktop Linux.

It will probably never be the year of the Linux Desktop in the mainstream , despite many promising projects out there. But for personal usage, Linux is more than acceptable - if you can grokk all of its pain points, that is. Linus Tech Tips did a few videos on the topic recently, it was painful but understandable to watch. Personally, Ubuntu LTS (or equivalent boring long term support distro) or something with XFCE i…

Typing this on a Asus 1215B that was sold with a Linux distribution and has already had a couple of LTS distributions since 2009.

Even though it was sold as Linux supported device, it had its own series of issues, with wlan driver being broken when Canonical decided to replace it for a less capable one taking 6 months to reach feature parity, nowadays GL is stuck at 3.3, although fxgl used to be able to do 4.1.

And then there is the whole issue with VA-API, and the workarounds to watch hardware accelerated video.

Hence why when this netbook dies, I most likely will stick to using GNU/Linux from VMs, which I have been doing with VMWare since 2010 in other computers, I don't recall the last time I went through the trouble of setting a dual boot system.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#67

Post by matsemann »

jordemort wrote: post #11

Why not both? Since Podman 4.1 came out with full Compose 2.x compatibility, I'm running Podman on Docker's socket, but using Docker's CLI to talk to it, so that I can use the buildx and compose CLI plugins. It works great, Docker's CLI doesn't seem to have any clue that it's talking to not-Docker. I even have VSCode's Docker extension and Remote Containers working this way.

Is the compose support recent? Tried earlier this year, and it was not nearly there. And I use docker compose stuff as remote interpreter in IntelliJ/Pycharm stuff, that didn't work well with podman when I tested.

I don't really care what I use, I just want to be able to develop locally without spending days setting stuff up. Rootless or whatever means nothing to me. Docker compose have made that easy for lots of otherwise complicated projects. Just compose up, point editor at the image and ready to go.

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#68

Post by papito »

pid-1 wrote: post #8

Docker for Desktop went from being complete garbage to a really nice product. I think Docker folks are heavily focused on providing great local development experiences, which is a niche few other products are covering.

All you really need is "ctop", the "top" for Docker. You can view running and idle containers, start, stop, delete, view logs.

https://github.com/bcicen/ctop

Re: Docker is dead? Podman – an alternative tool?

#69

Post by lapser »

This article misses quite a bit.

Podman has a full Docker compatible API, so you just have to enable it, and then set the DOCKER_HOST to point to its socket. From there docker compose should work as if you had Docker.

Podman also is currently working on "podman machine", which can spin up a Linux VM to run Podman on macOS and Windows. I think it's still in beta or something, but it seems to be working already.

There is also things like Podman Desktop[0] and Podman Desktop Companion[1] which attempt to bring an experience similar to Docker Desktop to Podman.

[0] https://podman-desktop.io/

[1] https://iongion.github.io/podman-desktop-companion/

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