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Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

matrix.org

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Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#61

Post by usr1106 »

tabbott wrote: post #30
Arathorn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is not an acquisition of any kind; Rocket.Chat just went and independently added native Matrix interoperability into their core product. It's basically celebrating this PR: https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/pull/23688 :) tabbott: we should so do this with Zulip - I think Matrix almost has all the threading primitives needed to bridge successfully now!

Yeah let's chat about it! We've overdue for catching up in any case :)

Wasn't the work (not the result) "announced" already during FOSDEM 1.5 years ago? Real world moving more slowly? Just an observation, it happens to all of us...

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#62

Post by jeroenhd »

Arathorn wrote: post #53
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #37

Rocket.Chat uses their own E2EE scheme [1] which is different and arguably less secure than the one in Matrix [2]. As I understand it, this is simply a bridge and will defeat the purpose of the advanced E2EE algorithm in Matrix. I recall looking at Rocket.Chat when setting up chat servers for my corporation and dropping it over their poor and slow to adopt E2EE implementations. [1] https://docs.rocket.chat/guides/sec…

Even if Rocket.Chat used the same E2EE scheme as Matrix, you would still have to re-encrypt, given the application-layer protocols are not the same. RC's messages are a blob of JSON which looks nothing like Matrix's JSON events. To preserve E2EE throughout you'd have to speak precisely the same protocol - e.g. Matrix+Megolm or XMPP+OMEMO or whatever, or effectively run a multihead stack (one which can speak both Matr…

I believe the eventual intention is to run a bridge in the client, allowing for perfect secrecy. Matrix itself is showing signs of running a homeserver on every client (though that's still experimental). Both projects are still a long way away, though.

To be fair, though E2EE is perfect for a general purpose messenger, I don't think it's necessary per se. Group chats that would normally appear on IRC don't have a need for E2EE (and verifying everyone in a public room is also extremely impractical!) which seems like a perfect use case for this integration.

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#63

Post by superkuh »

godelski wrote: post #34

HN frequently seems obsessed with Matrix. So I want to ask, where do you all hang out and how do you use it? I think Matrix is cool, I just am not sure how people are actually using it. Please don't tell me to look at the channels list there's a lot of porn and most channels I have joined are dead.

Matrix is where open source projects move their chat rooms when they don't actually want public input.

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#64

Post by geekgonecrazy »

geekgonecrazy wrote: post #49
tuerai wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rocketchat already had federation, but it is/was awful

It definitely was still in its infancy. But I think this is where Rocket.Chat's decision makes tons of sense. Matrix has spent as many years I think as Rocket.Chat focusing on a protocol. So makes perfect sense to leverage all of that time and learnings. Not to mention it means Federation with anyone that chooses to implement this common protocol. So beyond business interest alone but contributing to the greater ecos…

Well that thought came out incomplete.

* Matrix has spent as many years I think as Rocket.Chat —> * Matrix has been around about as long as Rocket.Chat but focused heavily on federation

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#65

Post by Arathorn »

preseinger wrote: post #59
walrus01 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rocket.Chat is basically selfhosted slack. What would this accomplish that self hosting synapse doesn't? It's totally possible to self host the official matrix 'synapse' daemon for self hosted slack-like functionality within an organization, and use the official 'element' client or any other compliant matrix protocol client. If it's for something like company slack-like functionality you can choose to federate or n…

> It's totally possible to self host the official matrix 'synapse' daemon for self hosted slack-like functionality within an organization, and use the official 'element' client or any other compliant matrix protocol client. If it's for something like company slack-like functionality you can choose to federate or not federate. Having attempted to do exactly this recently, let me assure you that while it may be technic…

What? Almost every statement here is wrong. There are tonnes of unfederated Matrix servers out there, and E2EE and SSO is completely orthogonal to federation. History retention does apply to encrypted events. And Synapse only tends to use lots of resources when federated into large public rooms (these days). I’m terrified at what must have gone wrong such that you ended up drawing these conclusions :s

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#66

Post by Arathorn »

usr1106 wrote: post #61
tabbott wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let's chat about it! We've overdue for catching up in any case :)

Wasn't the work (not the result) "announced" already during FOSDEM 1.5 years ago? Real world moving more slowly? Just an observation, it happens to all of us...

hm, i don’t remember announcing anything on the Matrix side? i might have namedropped that we’d been discussing it as a possibility tho!

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#67

Post by preseinger »

Arathorn wrote: post #65
preseinger wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's totally possible to self host the official matrix 'synapse' daemon for self hosted slack-like functionality within an organization, and use the official 'element' client or any other compliant matrix protocol client. If it's for something like company slack-like functionality you can choose to federate or not federate. Having attempted to do exactly this recently, let me assure you that while it may be technic…

What? Almost every statement here is wrong. There are tonnes of unfederated Matrix servers out there, and E2EE and SSO is completely orthogonal to federation. History retention does apply to encrypted events. And Synapse only tends to use lots of resources when federated into large public rooms (these days). I’m terrified at what must have gone wrong such that you ended up drawing these conclusions :s

I'm conveying my personal experience with the software.

> There are tonnes of unfederated Matrix servers out there,

No way to know for sure, but it certainly isn't a well-supported configuration.

> History retention does apply to encrypted events.

> Note that message retention policies don't apply to state events.

https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/docs/mess...

> And Synapse only tends to use lots of resources when federated into large public rooms (these days)

Synapse used 30-50% of 1 CPU and ~1GB memory at idle with 1 room and 0 connected clients.

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#68

Post by TheCycoONE »

superkuh wrote: post #63
godelski wrote: post #34

HN frequently seems obsessed with Matrix. So I want to ask, where do you all hang out and how do you use it? I think Matrix is cool, I just am not sure how people are actually using it. Please don't tell me to look at the channels list there's a lot of porn and most channels I have joined are dead.

Matrix is where open source projects move their chat rooms when they don't actually want public input.

As a maintainer of an open source project, we moved to matrix when freenode imploded and so we could bridge our users (mostly on discord) into the same room with our developers many of whom refused to use discord on principle.

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#69

Post by usr1106 »

Arathorn wrote: post #66
usr1106 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't the work (not the result) "announced" already during FOSDEM 1.5 years ago? Real world moving more slowly? Just an observation, it happens to all of us...

hm, i don’t remember announcing anything on the Matrix side? i might have namedropped that we’d been discussing it as a possibility tho!

I don't remember the wording. But something that there had been discussions and it should not be difficult / much work.

Re: Welcoming Rocket.Chat to Matrix

#70

Post by etc-hosts »

I tried to run rocket chat behind nginx, Android mobile clients updated correctly for a few minutes after original sync, and then it would break and remain broken unless I restarted rocket chat.

Desktop web clients worked always.

It's probably a websockets issue.

I tried running behind haproxy and traefik, same problem.

I tried following some advice I got from a maintainer in their forums, same problem.

I went back to Mattermost.

Is a shame, rocket chat UI seems nicer to me than mattermost

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