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Dropping out is probably not for you

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Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#61

Post by TillE »

vsl2 wrote: post #49

Why do most of the commenters seem to dislike college? Those were the best four years of my life, taught me real skills, programming and otherwise, that I use every day, and granted me that all-important degree which has come in handy for me and probably will for the vast majority of people who don't build the next Facebook or Apple. Unless you're in situation #5 that the article talks about, spend a few years to get…

Yeah. I got my CS degree (at a big state research university), learned a ton of computer software and hardware and theory and engineering stuff I absolutely would not have studied on my own because they weren't immediately practical, but were nonetheless extremely valuable. And I took a bunch of other classes that made me a much better thinker, in general and about various topics. I'm a vastly better software developer and a slightly more interesting person than I would have been without those classes.

If you're not enjoying and getting value out of university, something's wrong.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#62

Post by randomdata »

zerostar07 wrote: post #8
tintin wrote: post #5

Lately a lot of people think they can earn a lot of money without working hard. I'm not sure why people think this way. Maybe TV told them you can get whatever you want whenever you want.

Not TV, The Social Network (seriously, how many of you had friends asking you about their "billion dollar" startup idea after seeing the movie?)

Having just watched it two days ago, the Social Network shows Zuckerberg working all hours of the day, every day. If that doesn't give people the idea that it requires hard work, I don't know what will.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#63

Post by acqq »

johnohara wrote: post #48
edw519 wrote: post #3

The simplest test of whether or not you should drop out is this one: If you have to ask someone if you should then you shouldn't. I think I have a simpler test: Do you have a customer? Of all the things that you need to do to start a successful business, I think that getting someone to pay you for your work is the hardest. Deceptively hard. I've seen it all too often: Good technical skills. Check. Good design skills.…

Don't forget the story of Bill Gates' parents telling him that if he dropped out of Harvard, he was on his own. It didn't hurt that his mother was on The United Way's National Executive Committee along with then IBM Chairman John Opel. I'm from Chicago, "the city that works," and that IS how it works.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-06-11/news/mn-2837_1_mary-g...

"In 1980, she discussed with then-IBM Corp. Chairman John Opel, who was also on the United Way committee, the business IBM was doing with Microsoft. Opel, some accounts say, knew little about the venture, but mentioned Mary Gates to IBM executives who introduced Microsoft at a meeting of IBM's top-level management committee a few weeks later. IBM contracted with Microsoft, then a small firm specializing in computer languages, to create an operating system for its first personal computer."

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#64

Post by [deleted] »

ohashi wrote: post #51
alexholehouse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not use "what" you learn, but the skills you developed to help get through exams, hit deadlines, learn complicated concepts and work in groups are invaluable.

I absolutely agree. I studied economics and people have asked about it - what do you actually learn? You learn maybe a couple actual skills (regressions being the big one) but more importantly, it was learning about how to think like an economist. The sciences had more practical skills I can say I learned about data structures, theoretical performance, etc, but the biggest thing I learned taking CS courses was how to…

[deleted]

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#65

Post by jmj4 »

> 4) You're in your last or next-to-last year and you're fed up with the system, you want your freedom and you want it now.

Don't do it. Why? Because dropping out is easy, getting back in later is hard. Sure, the system sucks, but you are this close to bagging that piece of paper, you might as well go all the way.

I fundamentally disagree with you on this one. Getting that piece of paper give you a quick escape plan for when things get tough. Lets say you graduate, and start your startup. In the back of your mind you'll be saying "If this doesn't work out, I'll just go get a regular, decent paying job". And then things start to head south. You can't raise money, or you have no traction, ect. That decent paying job starts to look more and more attractive.

If you drop out, you're burning your bridges and forcing yourself to stay committed when shit hits the fan. Graduating leaves open an easy retreat strategy; it makes it much easier to quit.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#66

Post by adbge »

I dropped out of school last semester, so I think I can add some (unique) perspective. Maybe I will flesh these thoughts out into a blog post later.

When considering dropping out of college, you're the one who is ultimately responsible for that decision, you're the one who will live with the consequences, and you're the one who has the best information for making that decision. It's all on you. You have to ask yourself if you really believe that you can live with the consequences and, if so, take the plunge.

Now, I've only been a drop out for 3 months, so it's impossible for me to comment on the long term effects, but -- if there's one thing you need to realize before dropping out -- being a drop out is hard.

For one thing, everyone thinks that kids between the ages of 18 and 22 should be attending college, and they'll be happy to tell you so. Lots of people attended college and, since it worked for them, they will believe that the system can work for you. Further, these people have a vested interest in telling you how important college is and what a worthwhile experience it is because, frankly, they are trying to justify spending however many years attending college and paying off their student loans

Basically, don't expect a whole lot of support.

In addition, being a drop out in today's climate is a little bit more difficult than it was in the past. Computer Science is now an established discipline and schools actually teach it, so being self-taught is less of a necessity and more of an oddity. Further, while the common wisdom seems to be that the current economic climate is not so bad for programmers, it's certainly harder to get a job now than it was during the dot-com boom.

The final, and hardest part of being a drop out, is that it's incredibly lonely and incredibly difficult to stay motivated when you're on your own. I imagine that it's similar to being a solo founder. There are days when it's hard to find the strength to get out of bed, when you'll be filled with self-doubt, when you'll wonder if dropping out was the right decision. Hacking on your own for four years and building a portfolio, instead of attending school, might sound great on paper, but without your peers to support and motivate you, it's very hard.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#67

Post by conductrics »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #16

I don't think (2) is correct: You don't like to learn, and you need more money...Don't do it. Why? Because that stuff you learn you will need later on, and you will need it badly. Of all the stuff I learned in college, I needed very little of it. This includes many classes I enjoyed. Most of it I've forgotten already. Not only that, I didn't even take the traditional college -> job route - I stayed in academia for 8…

You don't think that economics helped you understand intelligent agents in AI? Or markets as a mechanism for efficient information exchange? Or constrained optimization - if you studied economics, it is intuitive for you to see the Lagrange multiplier as price/cost (shadow) in convex optimization. Whether or not it helped in implementation, that is another thing, but in interpretation and thinking about a problem I can't see how it couldn't be of value.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#68

Post by JupiterJazz »

The only reason the idea of dropping out is getting so much traction is because of the debt that's now required to get a degree. I haven't seen anyone defending college reconcile this fact.

The point is that a degree is now extremely expensive and is getting more so all the time. Id like to make the point that holding all that debt is a lot scarier than the successful people with decent jobs trying to persuade us to start or stay in school think it is.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#69

Post by randomdata »

vsl2 wrote: post #49

Why do most of the commenters seem to dislike college? Those were the best four years of my life, taught me real skills, programming and otherwise, that I use every day, and granted me that all-important degree which has come in handy for me and probably will for the vast majority of people who don't build the next Facebook or Apple. Unless you're in situation #5 that the article talks about, spend a few years to get…

I reached a hypothesis in yesterday's discussion about college being a substitute upbringing for those who may not have had many opportunities growing up: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3150390

The dislike comes form it being pointless busywork. It may not have been pointless busywork to you, depending on your upbringing. And that is just fine. Everyone comes with different experiences. College is just not for everyone, plain and simple.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#70

Post by hessenwolf »

webwright wrote: post #45
edw519 wrote: post #3

The simplest test of whether or not you should drop out is this one: If you have to ask someone if you should then you shouldn't. I think I have a simpler test: Do you have a customer? Of all the things that you need to do to start a successful business, I think that getting someone to pay you for your work is the hardest. Deceptively hard. I've seen it all too often: Good technical skills. Check. Good design skills.…

This. Passing college is cake. It requires very few hours of time compared to a real job-- it's a GREAT time to spin up a side business to see if you can generate/find demand for what you have. It's also a great time to experiment with co-founders. That said, necessity is the motherhood of invention and failure isn't going to sting THAT much. It's not terribly challenging to un-drop-out of college is it? Finally, I s…

Ha ha. That really depends on your Uni. I remember severe health problems due to the amount of study in my undergraduate.
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