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Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

healthaffairs.org

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Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#61

Post by whatever1 »

l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #9

The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Instead they have to resort to playing Russian roulette every time they use. Decriminalisation and regulation are the biggest harm reduction measures that could be taken and it would have the added bonus of freeing up space in the prisons and reducing the power of the cartels. There wouldn't be a fent pro…

You live in a country that does not consider Healthcare a right even for the moral, law abiding citizens.

Why would they care about the "illegals" (immigrants, addicts etc) or "immorals" (women or transgender who want control over their body) ?

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#62

Post by HWR_14 »

grapeskin wrote: post #45
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

Free supply won’t really be a solution and I can’t imagine why it would. Would making junk food and soda free food end the obesity epidemic? Making it free will only make that area a hub for people seeking to get high. Portland, Seattle, and SF are already hot spots where people actively come because they know they can get high easily. Making it completely free is just an even bigger invitation. I think one of Americ…

Making it free keeps people from needing to break everyone's windows to get their next fix. It also allows them to use their money on food/rent/etc so they are less likely to wind up homeless. It also means that they congregate in one area, so it's easier to provide resources if they decide to seek help.

It also prevents, you know, fentanyl from getting into the supply, having people get more addicted to a stronger drug.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#63

Post by _jal »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49
guerrilla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

> Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...? The Portugal narrative hasn't actually been as positive as initially reported by the Cato papers that were based on the first few years following the policy change. More recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths that doesn't really support the initially successful picture of their…

Do you know of a good source of info?

> recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths

Depends on the numbers, of course. But I think that is what folks realistically should have expected. Most societies tolerate the same with alcohol.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#65

Post by scythe »

wahern wrote: post #20
l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #9

The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Instead they have to resort to playing Russian roulette every time they use. Decriminalisation and regulation are the biggest harm reduction measures that could be taken and it would have the added bonus of freeing up space in the prisons and reducing the power of the cartels. There wouldn't be a fent pro…

> The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily. But it turns out that people with substance abuse addictions tend not to exhibit strong executive functioning (at least contemporaneously) as compared to the average non-abuser. So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (becaus…

>Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily.

It's no surprise that San Francisco is attractive to a certain kind of lifestylist. But when you look at the country you have 2 million addicts and only 400k on methadone. I find it very hard to believe that the average methadone clinic is running at 20% capacity.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20190920....

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#66

Post by WillPostForFood »

guerrilla wrote: post #41
wahern wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily. But it turns out that people with substance abuse addictions tend not to exhibit strong executive functioning (at least contemporaneously) as compared to the average non-abuser. So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (becaus…

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

The "just decriminalize" narrative about Portugal is a lie.

https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/14153458369139220...

Portugal has humane, coercive policies to get people off drugs, public use is illegal, and people get arrested.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#67

Post by _jal »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

> We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses Nonsense. It's not that cheap to manufacture (under regulated conditions) and distribute opioids like that. 1/1000th of the price? Even the cheapest, most easily manufactured commercial opioid medications aren't coming anywhere near that after decades of optimization the manufacturing p…

This is the worst sort of hn pedantry, but I have to agree. The security premium paid by cartels down through street dealers is indeed real, but QC and regulatory compliance would eat a lot of that savings. And the executive tax at cartels is probably similar to public firms.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#68

Post by [deleted] »

Gigachad wrote: post #40
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

Why would we want to accept normal people taking drugs which will fry their brains? Yes, only homeless addicts use these drugs because normal working people don't want to destroy their lives for a minor bit of fun.

[deleted]

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#69

Post by chasd00 »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #21
coldcode wrote: post #17

Fentanyl test strips are illegal in Florida, the legislature refused to decriminalize them for some reason.

At best, they're cowards who don't want to face ads that imply they condone drug use; at worst, they simply refuse to make it safer for anyone with a drug problem because they see them as human detritus.

If an addict tested their drugs and the test came back saying “do not take these” do you think an addict is just going to shrug and toss it in the trash? The test strips really do nothing for addicts. It’s not an easy problem.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#70

Post by humbleguy »

Gigachad wrote: post #40
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

Why would we want to accept normal people taking drugs which will fry their brains? Yes, only homeless addicts use these drugs because normal working people don't want to destroy their lives for a minor bit of fun.

This is a very misguided view. Majority of drug users are all around you, regular people who have families and hold jobs - your friends, your relatives, your coworkers. Just like majority of people who drink alcohol aren't alcoholics, majority of drug users aren't addicts.
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