Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#61

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #39

atty wrote: post #21

Honestly, what a terrible letter. Did not once say the words layoff or let go. Using phrases like “continue to be part of klarna’s journey”. Good lord, is this a business or a cult? And not a single line about concrete steps they will take to support the layoffs (multi-month severance packages, etc). Hopefully that is what they intend, but as of right now, this is pretty disappointing.

What a weird comment. The letter was perfectly fine. Firing a bunch of people is hard, impacts morale, and it's important to make sure people that you keep onboard don't panic. The letter didn't seem culty to me at all, and supporting layoffs was clearly addressed and will be done on regional-specific terms. Lawyers look at this kind of correspondence and tone down the language in some cases.

I agree - I read the parent's comment before reading the letter, expecting to see some corporate babble.

But, honestly, I didn't see that. Sure, there is euphemistic language, but the message is very clear:

1. 10% of the company is getting laid off.

2. The CEO was very explicit about how this process would unfold (e.g. stating what the email title would be), which is a lot better than most companies provide.

We can always endlessly nitpick the language choices when a layoff happens, and I don't think I've ever seen a layoff announcement on HN, even ones I thought were extremely transparent and free from corporate-speak, that didn't get shit on by a sizable number of comments.

Layoffs suck. There are really shitty ways to do them, and less shitty ways to do them, but there are no real great ways to do them.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#62

Post by sharken » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

datalopers wrote: post #25

jdmoreira wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is most likely not related to cash flows. This seems to be a preemptive strategic layoff to cut costs in preparation of tougher times to raise money / higher interest rates.

Klarna’s income is tied to consumer discretionary spending which is falling off a cliff.

With COVID becoming just another disease and the uncertainty from the war in Ukraine, it will only be worse from now on for consumer spending.

A lasting peace for Ukraine needs to happen before that will change.

And with Ukraine not willing to give any territory to Russia, that peace seems very far off.

A coup in Russia could change that, but a coup seems very unlikely.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#63

Post by cwzwarich » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

nisse2000 wrote: post #48

atty wrote: post #21

Honestly, what a terrible letter. Did not once say the words layoff or let go. Using phrases like “continue to be part of klarna’s journey”. Good lord, is this a business or a cult? And not a single line about concrete steps they will take to support the layoffs (multi-month severance packages, etc). Hopefully that is what they intend, but as of right now, this is pretty disappointing.

From a Swedish perspective this is probably a "varsel" which is prior notice that they intend to do layoffs. You can't just fire people in Sweden so this is a first step. They have to give notice that they intent to layoff people to the different unions and then start the process. In other countries where they operate it's probably very different? My guess is it will vary a lot how they do this because of first-in-fi…

> first-in-first-out rules in Sweden

I don't know anything about Swedish labor law, but wouldn't it be LIFO rather than FIFO?

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#64

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #61

dvt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment. The letter was perfectly fine. Firing a bunch of people is hard, impacts morale, and it's important to make sure people that you keep onboard don't panic. The letter didn't seem culty to me at all, and supporting layoffs was clearly addressed and will be done on regional-specific terms. Lawyers look at this kind of correspondence and tone down the language in some cases.

I agree - I read the parent's comment before reading the letter, expecting to see some corporate babble. But, honestly, I didn't see that. Sure, there is euphemistic language, but the message is very clear: 1. 10% of the company is getting laid off. 2. The CEO was very explicit about how this process would unfold (e.g. stating what the email title would be), which is a lot better than most companies provide. We can a…

10% is "getting impacted". I find it ridiculous when people use language like this. Especially a CEO. Have some courage and say the thing out loud. He who must not be named has a name, it's Voldemort.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#65

Post by phphphphp » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

rmbyrro wrote: post #58

phphphphp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much disagree. For people with anxious tendencies, this type of email is absolutely awful to receive, and consider that most of those let go will be at lower rungs of the company, so job security in the current market is going to be a big source of anxiety. “You are at risk of losing your job, but you’ll have to wait all week to find out”

> For people with anxious tendencies ... the current market is going to be a big source of anxiety I sympathize, but unfortunately I don't see much of what an employer could do to mitigate. This is just the harsh reality that everyone must live through...

tell them immediately?

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#66

Post by mingusrude » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

phphphphp wrote: post #44

rmbyrro wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually found it a humane way of dealing with the situation. They let everyone know in advance. Have the decency of individual communication. Anticipated what type of invite to expect. Promised to roll out quickly, in a matter of days. I mean, probably not the "perfect" layoff, but certainly not close to worse, or even "terrible".

I very much disagree. For people with anxious tendencies, this type of email is absolutely awful to receive, and consider that most of those let go will be at lower rungs of the company, so job security in the current market is going to be a big source of anxiety. “You are at risk of losing your job, but you’ll have to wait all week to find out”

As commented above, you have to do it this way in Sweden, you have to announce in public that you are going to lay off people and then from there on you negotiate with the union if you plan to not do stack-based firing (last-in-first-out).

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#67

Post by mynameisvlad » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #49

aabhay wrote: post #4

What does it look like to fire someone in Europe? As an outsider, all I’ve heard is that it looks very different from the US. What does the author mean by ‘associated compensation’?

Pet Peeve: There is no unified "Europe" where things are done the same way. There are ~50 very diverse countries in Europe, and things will vary widely. This is even true, though a bit less so, for the 27 EU member states.

From the article:

> Instead, if you are working in Europe, you will be offered to leave Klarna with an associated compensation. Outside of Europe, the process for impacted employees will look different depending on where you work. You will obviously receive more information about this very soon.

The article makes it seem like regulations in Europe (technically, the countries in Europe with a Klarna employee presence, although that's not explicitly mentioned) are similar enough, which is what the GP wanted clarity on.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#68

Post by Cederfjard » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

cwzwarich wrote: post #63

nisse2000 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Swedish perspective this is probably a "varsel" which is prior notice that they intend to do layoffs. You can't just fire people in Sweden so this is a first step. They have to give notice that they intent to layoff people to the different unions and then start the process. In other countries where they operate it's probably very different? My guess is it will vary a lot how they do this because of first-in-fi…

> first-in-first-out rules in Sweden I don't know anything about Swedish labor law, but wouldn't it be LIFO rather than FIFO?

Yes, you’re correct.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#69

Post by buro9 » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

nowherebeen wrote: post #28

Klarna seems like horrible company to work for from what I have read on HN. IQ test for interviews, mass layoffs with little self awareness, and very low pay compared to the US.

A horrible company for consumers too. Take those who can least afford to purchase something and give them purchasing power that they don't have and can't get from anyone else.

Re: Klarna – Company announcement from CEO regarding layoffs

#70

Post by phphphphp » Mon, May 23, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

mingusrude wrote: post #66

phphphphp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much disagree. For people with anxious tendencies, this type of email is absolutely awful to receive, and consider that most of those let go will be at lower rungs of the company, so job security in the current market is going to be a big source of anxiety. “You are at risk of losing your job, but you’ll have to wait all week to find out”

As commented above, you have to do it this way in Sweden, you have to announce in public that you are going to lay off people and then from there on you negotiate with the union if you plan to not do stack-based firing (last-in-first-out).

That’s not what they’re doing though, they’ve announced it and plan to tell people over the next few days, certainly not enough time to negotiate with a union. They’ve already chosen who is being let go, they’re simply delaying the process of informing people because (presumably) managers only have a certain capacity for meetings: they think a delayed face-to-face meeting is better than an immediate email.