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How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

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Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#61

Post by corrral »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #37
AlwaysRock wrote: post #22

Eh. These all seem fine. My route? I work less. I have a typical 9-5 but 1-2 days a week I leave a little early and go to do something engaging. Never when I have meetings. Never when I have deadlines. Never when someone is waiting on something from me. But I, and I suspect most engineers, have the capacity to get my work done for a week in less than 40 hours. I used to spend time dicking off on my computer to fill t…

Is your manager just next level laid back? I feel like most places are going to notice and be bothered seeing the yellow circle on your Teams or Slack status consistently for long periods of time.

Use slack on a phone or tablet most of the time, even when actually working. Set a high notification level when "at work" so you are notified even for non-mentions. Bonus: probably the single most power-hungry and memory-eating piece of crap on your laptop, is reduced to using the tiny amount of power it takes to send a push message, on a different device.

Then it's just normal.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#62

Post by BeetleB »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #37
AlwaysRock wrote: post #22

Eh. These all seem fine. My route? I work less. I have a typical 9-5 but 1-2 days a week I leave a little early and go to do something engaging. Never when I have meetings. Never when I have deadlines. Never when someone is waiting on something from me. But I, and I suspect most engineers, have the capacity to get my work done for a week in less than 40 hours. I used to spend time dicking off on my computer to fill t…

Is your manager just next level laid back? I feel like most places are going to notice and be bothered seeing the yellow circle on your Teams or Slack status consistently for long periods of time.

One thing I've found to be consistently true: Good managers highlight concerns with your performance. Poor managers complain about your hours[1]. If they're complaining about your hours, then there's something else bothering them, but they're using this as a proxy[2]. I don't want to work with managers who are not willing to discuss the real issues. They're a pain to deal with. So I always start looking for another job when this happens.

[1] This is assuming you're not missing meetings, and it's not a role that is customer facing with defined hours (e.g. storefront that's open for an advertised set of hours).

[2] The way to tell, BTW, is there's always someone else who's working less than you're expected to but is getting a pass.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#63

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

EddieDante wrote: post #34

Why would I want to be engaged at work? I just want to do my job and get paid. I think that expecting emotional fulfillment or meaning from my job is a trap, a way to con me into working more while accepting less pay than I deserve. Work won't love me back, so why should I love my work? I lost interest in unrequited love back in high school when I outgrew my Young Werther phase.

> "Why would I want to be engaged at work? I just want to do my job and get paid."

Because a career spans 40-50 years of being employed in one's profession. As the slow but steady stream of Ask HN's that boil down to "How do I get out of the software industry?" highlight, one pretty must has to derive at least some minimal enjoyment of their profession to help avoid becoming jaded or burnt out.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#64

Post by b3morales »

huehehue wrote: post #53
adamsmith143 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your manager just next level laid back? I feel like most places are going to notice and be bothered seeing the yellow circle on your Teams or Slack status consistently for long periods of time.

As a manager - my work habits look pretty similar. If you don't trust your peers or reports, such that you need to monitor the specific hours they're doing asynchronous/solo work, then that's a problem. The challenge is actually getting people to take advantage of this. I work with folks who default to overworking, so I have to be pretty insistent that they take time for themselves.

I currently have a manager like you and honestly this is worth a lot. It's basically part of my compensation, almost like being paid in time.

The peace of mind that comes with knowing that when I say "Hey, sorry, I need to take Wednesday off" the reply will be "Hope you've got something fun planned!" instead of the likes of "Hmm, well, we were ahead last sprint so if we slip this one it's okay" is incalculable. (I probably don't have something fun planned, but the sentiment is appreciated.)

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#65

Post by dangerlibrary »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #60
dangerlibrary wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be time to start looking for a team with a better work culture. There are many of them.

I am definitely willing to concede I may be in a bad situation but are there really teams in Agile frameworks with fibonacci pointing where you can pick up a 3-5 point ticket, finish it before the end of a sprint and not work on anything else?

Yes, there are, though that question is weirdly specific.

Is it important to you to work on a team using an Agile framework with Fibonacci pointing?

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#66

Post by b3morales »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #48
lmarcos wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what would be their argument against it? "Dev X is pushing his features on time, he's a nice college, always learning from him, but... Ah yeah, but he leaves work 1h before everyone else. Please fire him".

Sure but I guess depending on the place I'd think unless you had an explicit agreement about leaving early that there would be pushback. "If you have enough free time to leave early you have enough time to pick up another ticket"

I've left these "time to lean, time to clean" jobs in the dustbin of my teens where they belong. It's a seller's market for us geeks right now; we should take advantage of it while it lasts and find good conditions for ourselves to work in.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#67

Post by mattlondon »

I want to be less engaged! Leaving work behind both physically and mentally at 5pm is important to me.

I want to treat my work as a necessary "transaction" and don't want to devote any additonal energy to it than is required. Save your mental energy for your own life and activities.

Sure we all want our work to be fulfilling, but from experience I would urge against getting too "into" your work.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#68

Post by AlwaysRock »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #40
AlwaysRock wrote: post #22

Eh. These all seem fine. My route? I work less. I have a typical 9-5 but 1-2 days a week I leave a little early and go to do something engaging. Never when I have meetings. Never when I have deadlines. Never when someone is waiting on something from me. But I, and I suspect most engineers, have the capacity to get my work done for a week in less than 40 hours. I used to spend time dicking off on my computer to fill t…

I used to have so much anxiety about trying to fill 40 hours days. It led to me getting great performance reviews but feeling like shit and burning out at multiple places. During the pandemic I work maybe 4 hours a day. I wake up late, go for a walk, review some PRs, and then dig into a task. Meetings in the afternoon, another walk, maybe a bike ride. After dinner if I have something on my mind I'll log back on and d…

This is very similar to my schedule right now. Everything gets done. I don't feel burnt out. I'm actually able to feel healthy because I can workout during the day. It's great and no one gives a shit as long as I'm doing well.

In fact, it's much better for the company in the long run because I'm likely to stay for more than a few years because I actually enjoy my wlb.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#69

Post by AlwaysRock »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #37
AlwaysRock wrote: post #22

Eh. These all seem fine. My route? I work less. I have a typical 9-5 but 1-2 days a week I leave a little early and go to do something engaging. Never when I have meetings. Never when I have deadlines. Never when someone is waiting on something from me. But I, and I suspect most engineers, have the capacity to get my work done for a week in less than 40 hours. I used to spend time dicking off on my computer to fill t…

Is your manager just next level laid back? I feel like most places are going to notice and be bothered seeing the yellow circle on your Teams or Slack status consistently for long periods of time.

Ha. I refuse to play the game. I set my slack to away the day I start and never turn it back to green. I've done this at every job during the pandemic. The stupid green bubble vs gray or yellow or whatever is a form of always being at your desk micro management and it isnt productive.

I'll happily explain that to anyone who asks but I've only had a few people ask. Again, if you get your work done most people dont give a shit.

Re: How to feel engaged at work: a software engineer's guide

#70

Post by AlwaysRock »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #39
adamsmith143 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your manager just next level laid back? I feel like most places are going to notice and be bothered seeing the yellow circle on your Teams or Slack status consistently for long periods of time.

If managers are spending their days watching the color of the circles next to their team member's names, maybe the managers need more work to do in order to "stay engaged" at work. Of all the bad heuristics for trying to determine whether someone is being productive, this has to be near the bottom of the list. It's the digital equivalent of measuring engineer productivity by looking around the room and seeing who is…

I had a manager like this. I eventually got some software to keep my computer awake/active from 7am-7pm. It was stupid.
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