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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#61

Post by d3nj4l »

jstummbillig wrote: post #41

The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward at best. It's clearly a hard problem and increasingly so. Being dogmatic about privacy regulations without a solution for the abuse caused by those who are open to abusing others seems a little too internet-hippie to be taken seriously in 2022, and that's a little concerning when it's the echo chambers of those best qualified and responsible…

Fortunately, this is one of the cases where HN is right, and there is no "middle ground". Child Abuse is bad but mass surveillance to catch it is terrible and will only be (haha) abused.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#62

Post by belter »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #26
bambax wrote: post #12

"Potential victims" are not victims. That's where the slippery slope begins.

There was a movie called Minority Report that had a similar premise. Basically they would detect murders before they happened and arrest people moments before the murder took place. At the time of the arrest the potential killer had motive and intent, so that’s how they justified it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_(film)?wprov=s...

The movie was a warning:

"UK police are using AI to predict who could become violent criminals"

https://thenextweb.com/news/uk-police-are-using-ai-to-predic...

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#63

Post by emteycz »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

Actually, states are more than happy to falsely accuse innocent people, especially if it makes companies hand over their chat logs etc.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#64

Post by oxff »

sharken wrote: post #24
krono wrote: post #7

Yeah not like this. I will turn myself into a black hole as much as possible. If they somehow ever come to suspect me of these things I will gladly do anything I can to support their investigations. They can come by with a warrant, look through my message history specifically and only for evidence related to their investigation, it will happen in my presence, and no copies of my data will be made and/or fed into the…

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#65

Post by happythebob »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

No post body was provided.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#66

Post by BlargMcLarg »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

>nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

If anything, the 21st century has proven quite a few people are more than willing to do so when they deem the lack of true positives to be the greater evil. Or even just doing it for their own benefit.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#67

Post by OliverGilan »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

It always amazes me how anyone can be technologically literate and still think world governments should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. I agree OP, most people in government are probably not inherently evil or malicious but why should anyone trust that these initiatives won’t be poorly implemented and cause massive collateral damage to innocent lives?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#69

Post by op00to »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

>nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

Do you have a source for that? First, by triggering the filter, there's an assumption of guilt. The filter wouldn't trigger if there wasn't something bad there, right? Second, someone, somewhere is being incentivized in their job to increase the number of "detections" so they can increase their arrest numbers. Why would they want to "lighten their workload"? They're the cops. They just ask for more resources and get them.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#70

Post by dandellion »

pfortuny wrote: post #49
jstummbillig wrote: post #41

The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward at best. It's clearly a hard problem and increasingly so. Being dogmatic about privacy regulations without a solution for the abuse caused by those who are open to abusing others seems a little too internet-hippie to be taken seriously in 2022, and that's a little concerning when it's the echo chambers of those best qualified and responsible…

History has taught us a lesson. The USSR was hell on Earth, as was Mao’s China and Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Privacy of communication is such an essential part of modern culture that any kind of power trying to prevent it is suspect. Communications can only be suspect under a judicial order: otherwise the government is omnipotent because it can prevent anything.

And the inquisitions, and nazi Germany, and... Even when we don't forget history we get cocky and think we know better, that it will be different this time.
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