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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#61
I've been meditating regularly for at least 10 years now. My own selfish tendencies have increased and decreased during that time, it doesn't seem related. I think meditating is rather selfish, it's doing something for yourself, and that's ok. I primarily meditate because it helps me focus. I think it helps me deal with stress and helps me sleep better. I don't attempt any particular pose as most of the cross legged stuff is painful and has caused injuries.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#62
Can anyone actually say what “mindfulness” really means?

I once met a mindfulness coach who was trying to sell me on his business where he comes onsite and coaches corporate clients on mindfulness. The pitch broke down when he couldn’t articulate to me what the hell was really meant by mindfulness.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#63
This is so subject to interpretation that it's almost meaningless. For example, consider the case of someone who takes up meditation and comes to the realization that they really hate their job. If they then quit their job and seek another position at the same or lower pay, are they being 'selfish'?

On the one hand, if they've bought into the notion that "we are all a family here" and that loyalty to their employer is like a familial obligation, and quitting their job is like abandoning an elderly relative on the street corner, then they may indeed be consumed by feelings of guilt and anxiety. Most observers would note that this is a false equivalency: the relationship between employer and employee is certainly not like that between parent and child.

One could likewise argue that quitting a job one hates is actually altruistic, as there are people who might like that job and if one's workplace is full of people who like what they're doing, it makes it a much more pleasant environment. Additionally, people who hate their jobs are known to take out their frustrations on family members, which is an unpleasant situation, so quitting a job one hates, even if it results in a somewhat lower standard of living, is not at all selfish - assuming one can find another job, and the end result is not poverty/homelessness.

Meditation would seem to be beneficial in any case. Some people don't even recognize that they hate their job as much as they do, and perhaps some internal reflection can suggest some changes that can be made to make the situation at least tolerable.

Incidentally, attempting to use things like guilt to motivate people to be obedient is a very unhealthy and Machiavellian tactic, and if 'mindfulness' helps people to break out of such situations, then the more the better.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#64

Whenever someone talks about mindfulness or stoicism, the name that pops to my head is Tim Ferris. Like a less crappier Joe Rogan with an actual brain maybe? I still listen to some of his podcast episodes because he gets guests who I want to learn about. But oh my god the narcissism! I get it the podcast is about success and how to succeed, but for the love of god try to take your head out of your own ass for a minut…

Selfishness is not narcissism. Narcissism usually comes with selfishness, but you can't induce the other way round. It's interesting that you mention that Ferriss or his guests wouldn't talk about their acts of kindness, as that's exactly the kind of thing narcissists like to talk about (= virtue signalling).

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#65
It's so typical of the rapid, results-oriented, outcome-focused world that we live in that McMindfulness has dashed into the forefront of popularity; oh look, I'll just ignore the last 2500 years of learning and sit on a cushion for 20 minutes a day for 6 months and, bang, I'm enlightened!

Meditation is not about meditation. It's not about your time that you're on the cushion. Any good teacher points this out again and again. Meditation is about life, it's about Metta, it's about understanding your place in the world. It isn't about progress, or happiness, or being calm. It isn't a fad, to be dropped for something different when that becomes the next popular thing on Instagram. It's deeper than that, more central, more vibrant, longer, simpler - but harder! This is a journey of a lifetime, not a happy pill.

The whole context is stacked full of nuance - which, to be fair, the article stresses time and time again. Set and setting are slap in the middle of this. IT DEPENDS, as it always does and always did. Some people aren't in the right place to take on a proper meditative practice; others are in it for the wrong reason. Others still are so goal-oriented that they'll never understand the path for what it is. Some will become more selfish. Others will become better people. This is life. This is meditation.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#66
post #62

Can anyone actually say what “mindfulness” really means? I once met a mindfulness coach who was trying to sell me on his business where he comes onsite and coaches corporate clients on mindfulness. The pitch broke down when he couldn’t articulate to me what the hell was really meant by mindfulness.

The whole wellbeing thing being peddled in companies feels like such a scam. Like fad diets aimed at extracting money from vulnerable people.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#67

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

Well - how many of them did you need to help you? Something like this occurred at my buddhist temple during a meditation, except it was one of the members who collapsed. Someone went over help and the rest of us... couldn't do anything more. An ambulance was called. they got medical treatment. Should we have collectively wrung our hands? To what end? The point here isn't averting your eyes in the face of suffering, i…

I didn't expect everyone to jump into action and mill around pointlessly, I expected them to pause long enough to help me, a newcomer to town, contact people who were trained to help...

And to be clear, I mean this as an example and a warning to not get too disconnected from the physical world while doing these meditations. They were all as friendly of people as any others I met in a city, it was the context that made it stick out in my mind.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#68

This would line up with a broader trend I've noticed and would be interested in reading more about: the use of pop psychology to justify antisocial behavior. Ten years ago, telling a distressed friend you don't feel like hearing about their problems would be incredibly rude. Now you can find NYT articles explaining how to couch the same sentiment in more acceptable terms like, "I don't have the bandwidth to perform t…

Sounds like they are not able to shoulder responsibility for errors made in the past. It's not hard to do usually - a heartfelt apology takes a few seconds and can turn a relationship completely around.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#69
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, it is good for a famous spiritual leader to have obvious human flaws. I don't know too much about modern Buddhism but I don't think it would be good for Buddhists to worship their leader as being more than a mere mortal who might enjoy wearing a fancy watch.

It's a petty concern for someone who visits world leaders and maintain international relations at that level. It could be a conversation-starter in more unofficial moments, for fun (spiritual people are allowed 1 teaspoon of fun each day!) or just being practical. These kinds of topics are unfortunately what the focus many will remain at.

>or just being practical

generally speaking -- rolex collections don't spring up from practical reasons -- and he's known to purposely use cheap watch bands and flip the watch faces towards his wrists in an effort to hide them from view..

https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/stories-en/personalit...

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#70
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, it is good for a famous spiritual leader to have obvious human flaws. I don't know too much about modern Buddhism but I don't think it would be good for Buddhists to worship their leader as being more than a mere mortal who might enjoy wearing a fancy watch.

It's a petty concern for someone who visits world leaders and maintain international relations at that level. It could be a conversation-starter in more unofficial moments, for fun (spiritual people are allowed 1 teaspoon of fun each day!) or just being practical. These kinds of topics are unfortunately what the focus many will remain at.

Perhaps it was a subject of discussion while he was visiting the Aum Shinrikyo or NXIVM!
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