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How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

flower.codes

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Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#61

Post by forgotmypw17 »

eimrine wrote: post #48
taftster wrote: post #25

> Let's face it: the internet is broken. This is where I disconnect. The internet is not broken. Maybe arguably the _web_ is broken, and specifically, web pages are broken (the HTTP protocol is still a wonderful thing). I wish technical authors would stop making the internet-is-broken meme when they really mean the web is broken. Sure, there's plenty broken with the internet in other ways (DNS, encryption, government…

> The internet is not broken. > (the HTTP protocol is still a wonderful thing). But almost all websites are requiring an HTTPS and you know what? I have a dozen of dumbphones who can not access webpages because HTTPS is no longer supported by vendor of device or absolutely can not access https because handshake process takes too long time for gprs (if no edge). If HTTP is so wonderful than why I can not use it withou…

A small portion of websites are still usable with HTTP, and I'm hoping this number actually grows.

Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#62

Post by adamomada »

Warning, off-topic

> My daily driver is a mid-2012 MacBook Pro that will stop receiving all updates (security included) from Apple by the end of this year. While I personally intend to keep it alive with Linux, this isn't a path that is readily available to most people. What are most people supposed to do in this situation to save some money and avoid adding more junk to our landfills?

I’m in the same boat with the same machine. Have you heard of Open Core Legacy patcher? The 2012 machine is apparently the cut-off for ‘everything works’ but I’m really curious about the definition of ‘works’. Also, the security implications of using it, of course.

(I’m assuming OP is the author)

[0] https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/

Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#64

Post by taftster »

eimrine wrote: post #48
taftster wrote: post #25

> Let's face it: the internet is broken. This is where I disconnect. The internet is not broken. Maybe arguably the _web_ is broken, and specifically, web pages are broken (the HTTP protocol is still a wonderful thing). I wish technical authors would stop making the internet-is-broken meme when they really mean the web is broken. Sure, there's plenty broken with the internet in other ways (DNS, encryption, government…

> The internet is not broken. > (the HTTP protocol is still a wonderful thing). But almost all websites are requiring an HTTPS and you know what? I have a dozen of dumbphones who can not access webpages because HTTPS is no longer supported by vendor of device or absolutely can not access https because handshake process takes too long time for gprs (if no edge). If HTTP is so wonderful than why I can not use it withou…

For reference, HTTPS is still HTTP. These are not two separate protocols. SSL/TLS doesn't change how HTTP works.

The issue that the world has switched to HTTPS might be an interesting discussion. But the HTTP protocol itself still drives what's going on to send/receive data between client and server.

Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#65

Post by taftster »

123pie123 wrote: post #44
taftster wrote: post #25

> Let's face it: the internet is broken. This is where I disconnect. The internet is not broken. Maybe arguably the _web_ is broken, and specifically, web pages are broken (the HTTP protocol is still a wonderful thing). I wish technical authors would stop making the internet-is-broken meme when they really mean the web is broken. Sure, there's plenty broken with the internet in other ways (DNS, encryption, government…

>The internet is not broken. With BGP it's just about limping along with trust https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/major-bgp-lea...

Yes, BGP is a good example of brokenness on the internet. Lower in the stack than web pages, though, which was my rant that "internet broken" for many authors often means "web broken".

Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#66

Post by dusted »

blueflow wrote: post #55
dusted wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet is broken too, we've been slowly lulled into a scenario where there are first-class and second-class and even third class netizens, and the third class, I'd not even consider as having an Internet connection. First class netizens are publicly routable nodes with statically allocated IP addresses. These have real, honest Internet connections, they get to participate in the global community of humans and t…

> TCP port 25, meaning these people cannot send their own email They cannot run a mail server, you mean. For sending mails, you have port 587 plus authentication, which also solves the reputation issue with dynamic pools. The reputation issues with dynamic pools likely stem from malware-infected user machines sending spam.

No, I mean sending the mail, outgoing, running a mailserver and receiving mail is generally not a problem.

Let's say your email server is running on blueflow.person How do I send you an email on port 587 + authenticaion ? I'd need an account on your server to do that.. That's just silly! We can't expect everyone to have accounts on every mailserver, just to send email to eachother, that'd be like the postman having to have keys to every postbox to deliver letters!

Port 25 is where your email server expects to receive emails from other mailservers (like mine).

Re: How to build an absurdly backwards-compatible website

#67

Post by blueflow »

dusted wrote: post #66
blueflow wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TCP port 25, meaning these people cannot send their own email They cannot run a mail server, you mean. For sending mails, you have port 587 plus authentication, which also solves the reputation issue with dynamic pools. The reputation issues with dynamic pools likely stem from malware-infected user machines sending spam.

No, I mean sending the mail, outgoing, running a mailserver and receiving mail is generally not a problem. Let's say your email server is running on blueflow.person How do I send you an email on port 587 + authenticaion ? I'd need an account on your server to do that.. That's just silly! We can't expect everyone to have accounts on every mailserver, just to send email to eachother, that'd be like the postman having t…

You misunderstood it horribly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol#...

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