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Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

clairnote.org

61–70 of 176 posts

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#61

At a glance, this is a neat concept, but doesn't seem to come at the problem from the perspective of the most common users of music notation (experienced musicians); rather, it appears to have been written by somebody who was frustrated by trying to learn to read music. For experienced musicians, the priorities are a) legibility for sight-reading and transcription (which this system, with indistinguishable sitting/ha…

>for experienced musicians priorities are legibility….

For novices too! Just increasing the physical size of standard notation would be a big help. 13x19 sheet music would be nice.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#62

At a glance, this is a neat concept, but doesn't seem to come at the problem from the perspective of the most common users of music notation (experienced musicians); rather, it appears to have been written by somebody who was frustrated by trying to learn to read music. For experienced musicians, the priorities are a) legibility for sight-reading and transcription (which this system, with indistinguishable sitting/ha…

Yeah, agreed. I'm totally on board with fixing the fact that you have to learn ledger lines / note placements separately for each clef. Besides that, none of this seems necessary, and the legitimately of sitting/hanging notes is a big problem.

I'm all for a notation system that distinguishes major/minor thirds more clear. It's a neat idea.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#63

Top search result for "alternative music notation" is https://www.dodekamusic.com which looks like it has the same ideas, plus a rectangular rhythm design which makes it all _look_ different at a glance (for better or worse)

What I like about Dodeka is not their notation, but the Dodeka keyboard. I'm learning to play the piano now and the amount of stupid unnecessary complexity stemming from the fact that we've designed the keyboard to make playing in a single specific key easier and fuck everything else, is hurting my programmer brain. That, and the fact that small-handed male players like me (and like 80 % of women) are gate-kept forev…

Makes me think of the Jankó keyboard which has so many benefits I would love to get one someday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jank%C3%B3_keyboard

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does appear to be its origin. And if you take 12 equal divisions of the octave as a given, Clairnote seems more natural. OTOH once you're thinking in terms of a 7-tone subset, maybe traditional notation is more natural. (It certainly is to me, but I haven't given Clairnote a try.) Traditional notation uses the scale degree as the fundamental unit, whereas this uses the 12-edo chromatic tone as the fundamental un…

> microtonal variations The vast majority of music probably doesn't need this

The vast majority of _Western_ music doesn't need it, but microtonal music is extremely important in a number of Asian, Middle Eastern, African, and even Eastern European systems.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#65
As someone who has a difficult time reading music, at first glance this looks like it might help.

My main issue is that note in the middle of the stave are essentially unknowable for me. middle c-f is doable. but in the middle it get very fuzzy, too many lines.

I thought this notation might solve that, but instead of having notes with lines through them to indicate notes on a line, they are slightly above/below. That for me makes it very hard, even though most of the stave has been removed.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#66

To my eyes this is way harder to read than traditional notation, which really isn't hard to learn and works well for most music (and non-12TET music). It's hard to see if a note is on a line or just above/under it.

Same. Maybe it's my bias from having played piano for going on 25 years, but this notation is just irritating to look at, and has way more ambiguity than the standard system to my eyes. It also seems like it's less compact, which is a _huge_ problem. If you ever look at older ürtexts and the like, music notation is traditionally very dense to save paper and engraving costs. I don't think anything that makes music less dense is going to fly in the industry.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#68
post #45

At a glance, this is a neat concept, but doesn't seem to come at the problem from the perspective of the most common users of music notation (experienced musicians); rather, it appears to have been written by somebody who was frustrated by trying to learn to read music. For experienced musicians, the priorities are a) legibility for sight-reading and transcription (which this system, with indistinguishable sitting/ha…

The vast majority of users of music notation are amateurs, and being more friendly to amateurs would mean even more users. The vast majority of decision-makers are experienced users with a vested interest in the status quo. The issue is very similar to why corporate systems have such horrible user interfaces. The people making the decisions in IT aren't the normal users of the system. IT cares about features, integra…

> The vast majority of users of music notation are amateurs

I'm not sure the claims you and OP are making here are actually in tension. They said:

> the most common users of music notation (experienced musicians)

which is ambiguous, and might mean something like "of all the people that ever do any music-reading at all, the majority are experienced musicians," which would indeed be the opposite of your claim. But it might also be "of all the people that are reading music at any given moment, the majority are experienced musicians," which would be a proxy for "most hours spent reading music are spent by experienced musicians"; this could be true simultaneously with your claim (it stands to reason that experienced or professional musicians spend comparatively more time reading music than do novices or amateurs).

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the thing you want to optimize for is maximizing the average quality of experience for all users regardless of how much they use the thing, vs. maximizing the quality of the average hour of use.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#69
Electric bass player here. Oh and I'm quite mediocre too.

I think a musical notation system should not be driven by edge cases, which is what a bunch of HNers pointing out where this system falls short (microtonals, equal temperment sucks, etc, blah blah). Second, I think standard notation is designed for piano soloists, not for bands.

I've found the most effective system for sharing musical ideas with a band is the so called "Nashville Numbers System." Why is this? Well because you can't apply a capo to a vocalist. Every time I play with a different vocalist, there's going to be a key change. When we talk in terms of scale degrees "hey guys play 6m, 5/7, root", rather than "oh hey play a Em, D, G, wait j/k, that's too low, can you play G#m, F#, B? oh wait, earl over there says playing G#m on acoustic is impossible, go another half step up" everything is easy.

What does this require? Every musician needs to memorize scales, which isn't very hard. The process is: decide on the root as a band, then jam. And you handle accidentals as they come up as edge cases, rather than have them drive the bus off a cliff.

So how can we take this successful concept and apply it to notation?

I think there are two main issues with standard notation: First, the key signature is embedded into the notation. This was like HTML before CSS: the presentation should be separated from the content.

Here's the hill I'll die on: given that you're going to be playing in equal temperament, we don't need to have _any_ information about the key in musical notation. The only thing that matters is intervals. 99.95% of the audience doesn't have perfect pitch and they don't care either. All notes on the staff should be relative to some arbitrary root.

Which brings us to the second problem: Standard notation does not represent octaves consistently. This is the dumbest UX failure that annoys the absolute shit of out me as a bass player. If I want to mirror the melody line in a song for a section, I have to switch my brain from reading Bass clef where I live, to fumbling through Treble cleff notes, and they're all in the wrong spots.

Looking at the link, there are some improvements on the above two points. I do think there is still a leaky abstraction about the key signature. Given that I write things down as relative scale degrees anyway, I'd take this over standard notation any day if I learned to read it.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> microtonal variations The vast majority of music probably doesn't need this

The vast majority of _Western_ music doesn't need it, but microtonal music is extremely important in a number of Asian, Middle Eastern, African, and even Eastern European systems.

Ok... so? Use a different notation, duh. See my point about letting edge cases drive the bus off a cliff.
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