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Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

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Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#61

Post by PabloRobles »

TrueGeek wrote: post #25
PabloRobles wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you, please, give your point of view on it? This is something I never thought about.

https://hbr.org/2020/06/working-from-home-while-black https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/10/health/remote-work-disabiliti...

Thank you for the references, this is a very interesting perspective that I personally never considered before.

But still, I wondering if this should mean that WFH needs to be enforced at any company. Not every company can implement full WFH without disrupting operations, especially when working with hardware or when needing concurrent comunication between co-workers.

The article about black workers, mentions discrimination based (mainly) on their appareance. Sure this cannot happen if they work behind a screen. But the same would happen if we all were blind? Shall we wear opaque glasses to end discrimination based on racial features too?

We can also flip the argument. I see this as telling black people (or other groups), stay at home, and in this people will not discriminate you. Is this really what we want? We should make the world better by improving it, not downgrading it.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#63

Post by turtledove »

Invictus0 wrote: post #43
post_break wrote: post #39

The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. It all adds up when having to go back to the office. I hate that we had to return to the office because it was like getting a big pay cut. Even the 3 day a week thing, it's like what's the point? We can work from home obviously, what more does going in 3 times a week accomplish other than punish you, s…

Theft? Lol. Never get tired of hearing people making multiple 6 figures complain about their horrible life

We're all workers, and we should be supporting one another. Everyone has different concerns, but if you have a boss you have more in common with others who have bosses.

Worker solidarity raises us all up. Support workers in improving their workplaces rather than blowing them off for making slightly more.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#64

Post by azemetre »

enumjorge wrote: post #48
arrakis2021 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another engineer that doesn’t understand there are more jobs in a business than engineering. I say this as someone who works from home and is a huge WFH advocate. We need to stop assuming every role in an org revolves around “I stare at my screen for 9 hours do not interrupt me.”

Why not allow the flexibility to let both types of people do their best work though?

Maybe allow teams, but I don't think allowing individuals to choose isn't good.

Having a team that's half remote/half in-person is worse of both worlds. What typically ends up happening IME is that the in-person half typically gets way way way more visibility than those working remote. It's especially worse if the company isn't remote first at all. It's especially terrible if the team is remotely distributed as well. I left my last company because my org had a time preference for their offices in Hyderabad, which isn't bad but they kept forcing mandatory meetings at 7 or 8 am. All the US workers hated it. The idea of core hours didn't exists, you basically had to adapt to Hyderabad time or you suffered.

I have no issue with remote teams or in-person teams, but having both in the same team is the worse.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#65

Post by thebean11 »

golergka wrote: post #26
Cuuugi wrote: post #14

and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" I mean, they're just asking you to come to the building 3 days a week.

> I mean, they're just asking you to come to the building 3 days a week. Which is only possible for people who live in the same hemisphere as the building and have citizenship or visa. Remote work is international work.

What are you talking about? Is Apple asking people to go into offices in countries where they aren't employed..?

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#66

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #37

Honestly, at least Apple laid out their intentions. People can leave or stay, but the policy is clear. At my workplace they keep nodding at "hybrid" without any specifics and the resulting fear due to uncertainty is far worse than a clear policy that some (many) people might not like...

If your hybrid is mandatory then you can expect to be back to full time 5 days in a years time approx.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#67

Post by throwaway284534 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #43
post_break wrote: post #39

The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. It all adds up when having to go back to the office. I hate that we had to return to the office because it was like getting a big pay cut. Even the 3 day a week thing, it's like what's the point? We can work from home obviously, what more does going in 3 times a week accomplish other than punish you, s…

Theft? Lol. Never get tired of hearing people making multiple 6 figures complain about their horrible life

It’s just a fact: Anyone who has an easier life than my own is petty, and anyone that has it harder should be grateful that their life isn’t worse!

(Sarcasm)

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#68

Post by jsiepkes »

post_break wrote: post #39

The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. It all adds up when having to go back to the office. I hate that we had to return to the office because it was like getting a big pay cut. Even the 3 day a week thing, it's like what's the point? We can work from home obviously, what more does going in 3 times a week accomplish other than punish you, s…

> The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch.

I'm all for remote work but calling it "time theft" feels a bit weird.

You knew these things were a requirement when you signed your contract, right? If you didn't want these things then why didn't you either made a point of them in contract negotiations or simply went to a company that allowed remote work from the start?

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#69

Post by turtledove »

imgabe wrote: post #51
adamsmith143 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really hard to imagine that it's easier to get to the office as an able bodied 22 year old than as a 45 year old wheelchair user? Or a 31 year old single parent?

Is it really hard to imagine that it’s easier to afford a comfortable vehicle to commute in, not to mention housing with a shorter commute, as a 45 year old senior manager than as a 22 year old just starting out with significant college debt?

Software engineering salaries start at six figures with signing bonuses in the tens of thousands.

22 years are buying houses and cars when they land at Apple.

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