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Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

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61–70 of 206 posts

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#61
What happened to appearing weak when you're strong, and strong when you're weak? (Unless this is a submarine targeting enemy researchers?) Making warships look aesthetically pleasing strikes me as a little silly.

That said, safety and mental health sounds like vital issues to address.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#62

" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the side if we don’t have enough supply ships or crew on those supply ships if crews are committing suicide and arson because of conditions at shipyards tasked with painting old ships if the Navy doesn’t seek out the advice of commercial professionals at companies…

A Few Good Men. It's a good one.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#63

The Navy builds its ships with steel, and the grades of steel used in the construction can experience rust. Solutions: Switch to 100% stainless steel. Stainless steel is an alloy and contains a minimum of 11% chromium. This allows the formation of a protective film of chromium oxide which acts as a shield against rust. The protective film will re-form if damaged. Corrosion resistance can be further enhanced with the…

So surprising no one involved in a multi billion dollar industry hasn’t tried to consider the solutions you propose

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#64
From vague memory - didn't the USN have to more-or-less write off some major warships in the past decade or few, because the contractor who built them did so to "fresh water only" spec's - then weaseled, lawyered, and lobbied his way out of responsibility for the ships being utterly unfit for purpose?

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#65

Rust-free? How over budget should we go trying to make an all-aluminum and carbon fiber carrier? Is fiberglass ok or are we planning on making submarines too?

The all-aluminum Independence Class ships barely lasted 10 years before corrosion and other design problem meant all three had to be scrapped.

It's too bad since I liked the concept and the new technology being tested out on the ships. There was even speculation one of the ships would have the first working rail gun installed.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning problems have existed for a decade, if not more. The Navy holds the sad record of being the worst managed branch of service. Steep budget cuts in the 1990s and again during sequestration have had severe effects that the Navy hasn't yet recovered from. But I don't know whether that's the cause of the problem. The Navy is an especially unique branch given that it's the only service that revolves around a relati…

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

US GDP (nominal) in 2001: USD$10.6T

US GDP (nominal) in 2021: USD$23T

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#68
post #32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's a name for this phenomenon, but it's sort of like an invisible Chesterton's fence. "Just make them out of a different steel" feels like a idea that is elegant, but even as someone that's never built a ship, I have to imagine there's some good reason why they're built out the materials they are, and why a simple material change is unlikely to be a solution. Maybe I'm wrong (it's not like organi…

I don't know about modern ships -- I suspect a lot of this is classified -- but as an example, the WWII Bismark had a hull which was around a foot thick, as armor. (1) Rust wouldn't go all the way through. Surface rust isn't a problem. (2) You want high-quality armor; toughness is key. Steel composition should be primarily chosen for toughness-to-weight (3) And cost, of course. Stainless would have been expensive, an…

Peacetime ships are also expected to last (Googling) 36 years in good condition.

I'm sure it was a concern in WWII, and that they took all steps they could to preserve their vessels, but I'm also guessing that as long as they weren't rusting so fast as to become junk in three or five years, they were much more worried about surviving combat than rust.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#69
This is quite a cool analogy for either poor or strong leadership during a time of crisis and long deployments. I can't tell which is which yet. I'd probably go with the former based on my experiences and what I've seen firsthand in the surrounding world(healthcare, big tech, education, etc).

On the poor leadership front, less people on the front line and they have been burnt out for longer than ever on overextended deployments. Enduring stress for too long simply breaks you down. The attention to detail eventually dissipates and people are just trying to keep their heads above water.

On the strong leadership front, everything continued to function to expectations except appearance which may be argued to be the last remaining detail. Appearance however is everything in the military and goes back quite some time to tradition:

> An old Navy tradition has it that the ship's cook shines the ship's bell and the ship's bugler shines the ship's whistle. This tradition may still be observed in some of the ships of the modern Navy. However, in normal practice, the ship's bell is maintained by a man of the ships' division charged with the upkeep of that part of the ship where the bell is located.

This seems like a fun college-level question for a leadership/military/software class. What is your argument and why?

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading...

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#70
post #48

This looks like the same phenomenon as the crisis in staffing nurses that was discussed here the other day. Careerist, indifferent management giving the people on the front line inadequate resources and then blaming them when things start to look shabby, or when someone dies. Scapegoating the people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, who are tired, inadequately trained, and inured to a climate of normaliz…

I know much more about healthcare than the Navy, but it’s notable that they both have rigid stratification between roles. I could imagine that hampering operational feedback loops in normal times, and strategic feedback loops given the labor supply/demand situation in these extraordinary times.

At least in healthcare, I doubt this is a major causative factor (presuming when you say roles you mean physicians and nurses) -- the physicians are extremely supportive of the nurses, and their demands for more pay and better conditions in all the healthcare settings I've worked.

The real problem is the unaccountable bureaucratic management, which are neither physicians nor nurses, and the numbers of which continue to expand (sucking up financial resources) while physicians and nurses workload increases and pay continues to decrease in real terms.

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