Earlier quoted context omitted.
All exponential functions in nature are really S-curves. Slow-downs could absolutely be the result of corruption, but could be natural limits of whatever process enabled the initial growth
Yeah there's always economic miracles or Moore's law but for diodes or some shit, something, they all peter out. All of them. No exceptions. All of them. Moore's law is in the saggy part of the S-curve, it's been morally dead for fourteen years in some ways, eleven years in others, and for eight years transistors flat out don't shrink at all they just pack more of them in the same space. I saw this coming, I did the…
Is growth linear, not exponential?
61–70 of 79 posts
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#62It's almost certainly exponential, but the rate of growth depends on a number of dynamic factors. Corrupt elites often shut growth down. It happened in China and Japan several times in the second millennium, and it's happening in the US in the third one; we've backslid since about 1970.
That first sentence could replace the entire paper. Growth functions are inherently/fundamentally exponential (regardless of whether we're talking about bacterial colonies, populations of rabbits, compound interest or ROI), but the forces that act on the exponent change over time. It really is this simple.
By this standard, every function is “fundamentally exponential”.
You can plot literally any (strictly positive, differentiable) function on a log scale and find the slope at every point. BAM! Look, an exponent (changing over time)!
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#63Exponential-growth occurs when each unit of the growing-thing grows at a continuous rate. For example, if Alice invests $100 in a continuously-compounding bond, then keep re-investing the yields into more of the same bonds, then that'ld tend to be an exponential-growth process.
Linear-growth occurs when the growing-thing is produced at a regular rate. For example, if Bob keep making widgets, then the growth-rate of Bob's widget-pile would tend to be linear.
Anyway, apparently [this paper (2020) [PDF]](https://web.stanford.edu/~chadj/IdeaPF.pdf ) had its Equation-(1) basically parse to:
> dA/dt / A = alpha * S
, where "A" would be "ideas" (which seems vaguely defined), "t" is time, "alpha" is a constant-proportionality-factor, and "S" is an amount-of-scientists (who presumably generate the "ideas").
This equation is for an exponential-growth model. For example, if we reduce it to "dA/dt = k * A" (where "k" is a constant for alpha*S, to make this easier on WolframAlpha), then [the solution is an exponential-function](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=dA%2Fdt+%3D+k+*+A ).
By contrast, it'd have been a linear-function if the authors instead assumed
> dA/dt = alpha * S
... this is, no "/ A" on the left-hand-side.
Anyway, a lot of comments on this thread seem to claim that any (first-order continuously-differential) function is approximately linear if we zoom in enough. Which, yup! -- we can look at both the linear-function and exponential-function as linear-functions by zooming in. So let's do that!
Basically, we can compare:
1. dA/dt = alpha * S (the linear-case)
2. dA/dt = alpha * S * A (the exponential-case)
where "dA/dt" is basically the rate at which "ideas" are generated, and then the right-hand-side of both equations is the marginal-rate (or instantaneous-rate), which is basically the slope of the linear-function that we'd see if we zoomed in enough on both functions such that they both appear (at least approximately) linear.
Practically speaking, we can ignore "alpha". It's basically just a fit-constant to be solved for. Then both equations also have "S", which is basically the amount of scientists who're working.
The big difference is that the exponential-case (which the 2020-paper linked above assumed) also includes a factor of "A" -- this is, the ideas. So, does it follow that "ideas" multiply how fast scientists produce more "ideas"? For example, if a scientist is working in a society that has 100 times more "ideas", then would that scientist produce new "ideas" 100 times faster?
If YES, then the exponential-form would seem appropriate. But if NO, then the linear-form would seem appropriate.
---
EDIT: Skimming a few more sources, it looks like various folks may be trying to use the same equations/data/terminology, possibly for different things?
In the above-comment, I was mostly trying to comment on the basic-model that seemed to be presented in [this paper (2020) [PDF]](https://web.stanford.edu/~chadj/IdeaPF.pdf ), which the linked-article seems to be in-response-to.
However, it's unclear if the definitions cited, including of the variable "A", were necessarily representative of their usage elsewhere.
That said, [the linked-article's paper [PDF]](https://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~tphilipp/papers/AddGrowth_macro... ) starts its Section-5, "Conclusion", with:
> TFP growth is not exponential. New ideas add to our stock of knowledge; they do not multiply it.
, which seems to be in-line with the above-comment's interpretation from the other-paper.
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#64These two does not match economy growth vs global warming.
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#65Can’t you model almost anything as a piecewise linear function? I don’t know if this claim is saying much of substance.
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
That first sentence could replace the entire paper. Growth functions are inherently/fundamentally exponential (regardless of whether we're talking about bacterial colonies, populations of rabbits, compound interest or ROI), but the forces that act on the exponent change over time. It really is this simple.
> Growth functions are inherently/fundamentally exponential but the forces that act on the exponent change over time By this standard, every function is “fundamentally exponential”. You can plot literally any (strictly positive, differentiable) function on a log scale and find the slope at every point. BAM! Look, an exponent (changing over time)!
If you don't have a causal graph explaining why your exponent is changing, then your plot doesn't make sense.
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
All exponential functions in nature are really S-curves. Slow-downs could absolutely be the result of corruption, but could be natural limits of whatever process enabled the initial growth
Yeah there's always economic miracles or Moore's law but for diodes or some shit, something, they all peter out. All of them. No exceptions. All of them. Moore's law is in the saggy part of the S-curve, it's been morally dead for fourteen years in some ways, eleven years in others, and for eight years transistors flat out don't shrink at all they just pack more of them in the same space. I saw this coming, I did the…
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#68Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would be a change to macro models of economic growth, if accepted. The default is that TFP grows exponentially. There's also a useful comment by Marginal Revolution here ( https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/04/ad... ) where he points out that TFP itself is really just a residual, and perhaps not a very well-defined concept. That is, if you regress Y = AK^beta L^(1-beta) with K being the amount…
Why is TFP assumed exponential by default? What's the theory behind that? A time lag in the transfer between exponential input growth (e.g. population) and exponential output growth?
One answer might be "TFP reflects technical knowledge; the more knowledge there is, the easier it is to generate new knowledge". But you'd have to get into growth macro for the details. Indeed, Romer is the person.
Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
All exponential functions in nature are really S-curves. Slow-downs could absolutely be the result of corruption, but could be natural limits of whatever process enabled the initial growth
Yeah there's always economic miracles or Moore's law but for diodes or some shit, something, they all peter out. All of them. No exceptions. All of them. Moore's law is in the saggy part of the S-curve, it's been morally dead for fourteen years in some ways, eleven years in others, and for eight years transistors flat out don't shrink at all they just pack more of them in the same space. I saw this coming, I did the…
Why would anyone ever pay back a loan if it had zero additional interest for extending the term?