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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

theverge.com

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#61

Post by VyseofArcadia »

criddell wrote: post #50
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #3

Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.

I read a story yesterday[1] how the policy inside Google is to cc their legal department on any emails that you think could make the company look bad in any future legal proceedings. As I understand it, this shields the email from discovery. Did you have similar guidelines inside Microsoft? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30760923

As I recall, the informal guidance I got as a lowly Software Engineer II was, "if legal gets involved, you've already screwed up."

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#62

Post by jimbob45 »

soperj wrote: post #23
thathndude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent the article gets anything wrong, it's the focus on just Microsoft. Microsoft is not some lone, bad actor here.

Who cares? Start with the one they have evidence on and move on to the next one.

You say that but that’s basically what happened with US v. Microsoft and they never moved onto the next. Apple is doing far worse with Safari on iOS and the DOJ refuses to apply the same standard.

This seems like reverse rule of “if you’re going to bring food, you have to bring enough for the whole class”.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#63

Post by topspin »

dukoid wrote: post #29
Dracophoenix wrote: post #11

I reckon Microsoft and others haven't learned from Lockheed in the 70s. It'll only be a matter of time before we hear about other charges regarding Apple and Google

Every generation has to re-learn this lesson? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals

Has it been one full generation since the SEC was handed evidence of fraud (Madoff) and blew it off? That was only 14 years ago.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#65

Post by edgyquant »

aeternum wrote: post #51
mistrial9 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a formal fallacy - joining something substantial, serious and a matter of public law, to something personal, of little consequence, and governed at a local level. please reconsider this as this important public discussion evolves on YNews?

What is your definition of bribe then? Keep in mind that in countries like Cambodia and Yemen, something like 70% of public companies receive bribes. It is very much common practice and culturally acceptable.

I would say at that level of acceptance it isn’t a bribe.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#66

Post by otterley »

legalcorrection wrote: post #45
otterley wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think our laws should be tuned for maximum profit, or to reflect who we are, ethically and morally, as a society?

It's not about our laws, it's about their laws. Whether bribery is legal or otherwise tolerated seems to be a question properly for the country whose officials are being bribed. It may be hard to imagine, but this is just how it works in some countries. They don't pay their public officials enough, and everyone expects that they pad their inadequate official salaries with corruption. I certainly wouldn't want my coun…

> mistaking western legalism for a universal ethos.

If our laws aren't reflecting a "universal ethos," then it seems to me we need to change our own laws. If, on the other hand, our laws are tuned to reflect our judgment that bribery is universally ethically and economically problematic for a multitude of defensible reasons (regardless of whether it's a common practice elsewhere), then perhaps we are doing the right thing.

Sometimes theory and practice come into conflict. Persuading others to adopt our policies, which we believe to be grounded in universally applicable ethics, through economic pressure is the best thing we know how to do that doesn't involve going to war.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#67

Post by spaetzleesser »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #11

I reckon Microsoft and others haven't learned from Lockheed in the 70s. It'll only be a matter of time before we hear about other charges regarding Apple and Google

It may be that they have learned from Lockheed and tried to do the bribes in a better way.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#68

Post by cjbgkagh »

jimbob45 wrote: post #62
soperj wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? Start with the one they have evidence on and move on to the next one.

You say that but that’s basically what happened with US v. Microsoft and they never moved onto the next. Apple is doing far worse with Safari on iOS and the DOJ refuses to apply the same standard. This seems like reverse rule of “if you’re going to bring food, you have to bring enough for the whole class”.

Microsoft refused to pay lobbyist, now they do. AFAIK Apple never made that mistake.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#69

Post by tombert »

bnt wrote: post #40

Let's see how The Verge falls out of Microsoft's grace moving forward. The Verge had (what feels like) direct access to top MS execs for all product launches. I guess those days are over. Don't get me wrong, if this was picked up by the SEC or DOJ - I'd take it more seriously, but it sounds like accusations with no real proof.

Wouldn't that be evidence that they have less reason to lie about this? This is potentially burning a bridge, which could potentially cost them financially long term.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#70

Post by tombert »

goodpoint wrote: post #26
Qem wrote: post #10

My work involves a public sector organization in Brazil. In the last years there was a big push towards microsoft products at my workplace, to a point where emails with announcements from corporate IT sometimes looks and sounds like spam pushing MS products. Now I'm left wondering if that's related to bribes here too, or if it's just bad judgement/taste from IT leadership.

It's well known that Microsoft has been giving bribes even to small companies for many decades. The entity of the bribes from MS are above average.

Is it considered a "bribe" if it's a transaction between private companies? I would think that's just considered a "discount" at that point.

Not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I thought there might be a legal distinction.

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