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Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

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Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#61

Post by OpieCunningham »

cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

For myself, the ridiculousness of your comment has nothing whatsoever to do with whether someone somewhere may find it offensive. Other than direct communication with family, the concept of eliminating critical comments regarding someone who has recently died is, frankly, pathetic.

No, the ridiculousness of your comment is that you actually believe Steve Jobs has not made a contribution to computing. That's simply insane. Your mind is totally divorced from reality.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#62

Post by tzs »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #37
cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

I don't see why this is being downvoted. Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote. It seems accurate to say that Jobs was a salesman. He didn't design or write any software or hardware that I know of.

That's not why it is getting down voted, I believe.

Jobs influence over Apple's products went far beyond merely selling them well, and this was extensively discussed in the bazillion news stories and blog posts in response to his resignation as CEO, and those were heavily discussed here on HN and in other comparable forums.

Accordingly, I believe that many of the down voters don't merely disagree with the post, but believe that it is objectively wrong, AND feel that there is just no good excuse for a regular HN reader/poster being wrong on this.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#63

Post by arkx »

cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

First time in 3+ years of lurking on hackernews when I wish I had enough karma to downvote you.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#64

Post by shinratdr »

cperciva wrote: post #59
sunchild wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize how poorly your comments reflect on your product, right? I'll certainly never support Tarsnap after reading this garbage.

I'd rather be poor, friendless, and honest than be rich and have friends only because I refused to air controversial opinions. I'm glad I don't have any investors or employees who could be hurt, though.

You seem to think you are being brutally honest. You aren't, you're being painfully arrogant. There is a massive difference.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#65

Post by cperciva »

tptacek wrote: post #60
cperciva wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. I hate political correctness. Ok, nil nisi bonum it is; I'll shut up now.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know. Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm getting our IT guy to sign up for Tarsnap tomorrow.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know

I credit coming from a family of academics who care strongly about academic freedom. That said, I think I even shocked some highly liberal academics last year when I stood up in a university senate meeting and decried a proposed affirmative action policy as "unabashedly racist".

Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm getting our IT guy to sign up for Tarsnap tomorrow.

blink I was not expecting that. I was hoping that people wouldn't hold my personal opinions against me professionally, but I didn't think for a moment that I'd gain any customers.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#66

Post by _delirium »

tptacek wrote: post #60
cperciva wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. I hate political correctness. Ok, nil nisi bonum it is; I'll shut up now.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know. Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm getting our IT guy to sign up for Tarsnap tomorrow.

It's a good thing he runs his own company too, because boards / PR depts don't think like that, and would be having a fit if they found this. ;-)

"Founder of Tar Snap (Nasdaq: TRSP) pisses on Steve Jobs's grave!"

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#67

Post by tptacek »

cperciva wrote: post #65
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know. Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm getting our IT guy to sign up for Tarsnap tomorrow.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know I credit coming from a family of academics who care strongly about academic freedom. That said, I think I even shocked some highly liberal academics last year when I stood up in a university senate meeting and decried a proposed affirmative action policy as "unabashedly racist". Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm gettin…

I'm not kidding.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#68

Post by rms »

cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

This was Startup News before Hacker News... and while Steve's skill as a hacker could be disputed, his position as the greatest CEO of the modern era is basically indisputable.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#69

Post by diolpah »

sunchild wrote: post #50
cperciva wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I acknowledge the impact Apple has had on computing. But they've done that primarily by being very good at marketing, not by being technically innovative.

You realize how poorly your comments reflect on your product, right? I'll certainly never support Tarsnap after reading this garbage.

I don't agree with cpercival's comments, and I am quite saddened by the loss of Steve - more so than I would have expected.

But it should be pointed out that the comments in no way reflect poorly on Tarsnap. It's a fantastic product.

(other than the fact that the account balance alerts only consider storage used, not traffic charges. Grr.)

edit: Downvoted already? For being a satisfied customer? Really?

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#70

Post by plinkplonk »

cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

Why is Colin downvoted for expressing a contrary opinion? Come on folks this is HN.

Fwiw On his twitter feed Colin made the more nuanced point that we didn't mourn this way for Dijkstra or Jim Gray that we do for Jobs. An interesting thought, but it didn't come through here.

I think what seems to trigger all the downvoting is this bit "De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more." and "Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing."

One way to counter this opinion is to just state specifically how Steve Jobs is more than a skilled salesman etc. Should be fairly easy to do. I think the skills of a superior tech company CEO (and Steve Jobs was certainly that) go well beyond being a salesman,which has connotations of just selling something other people thought up.

As to the black bar,my personal opinion is that the black bar is a courtesy, a social grace if you will. As with all social niceties it isn't perfectly rational or completely logically justifiable. If you feel irritated by it, just hang in there and it will go away soon.

Meanwhile, thank you Colin, for making me think (about the way we treat the death of a celebrity differently than people who die relatively "unknown" but may have contributed more (on a strictly logical basis).

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