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Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

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Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#61

Post by nvahalik »

nerdjon wrote: post #45

As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…

> Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong)

While subscription cancellations work similarly, Apple holds your hand (from a dev perspective) than Google does. Apple's overall approach seems to just make sense. For instance: if you stop offering a particular plan because you don't want to offer it anymore (e.g. no more yearly plans, only monthly and quarterly). With Apple, you get a notification that you need to change your plan, but if the change happens w/in 7 days of your renewal, you'll be grand-fathered in.

With Google... well... you cannot stop offering it. You have to communicate (manually) a cutoff date, (via their API) cancel people's subscriptions, and then deal with the fallout.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#62

Post by nerdjon »

nvahalik wrote: post #61
nerdjon wrote: post #45

As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…

> Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong) While subscription cancellations work similarly, Apple holds your hand (from a dev perspective) than Google does. Apple's overall approach seems to just make sense. For instance: if you stop offering a particular plan because you don't want to offer it anymore (e.g. no more yearly plans, only monthly and quarterly). With Apple, you get a notification that…

How much does Google communicate to the user with this?

One big benefit I didn't mention, is any yearly membership I get a communication from Apple that it is about to renew. Reminding me to cancel if I no longer want to use it.

I don't know of a single service I have subscribed too directly that does this.

Edit: I remembered one. FFXIV oddly enough reminds me every month that they are about to bill.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#63

Post by matthewmacleod »

echelon wrote: post #46
orangepanda wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the opportunity for developers? An opportunity to make unsubscribing a more engaging activity

It's the opportunity to take more of your revenue as margin, plain and simple. Contrary to your suggestion, I would argue that most businesses do not want to predatorily extract money from unwilling customers. It's typically the old, calcified businesses that do not innovate (gyms, cable companies, etc.) that engage in this behavior. I want more margin so I can hire more engineers and change the world faster. Google…

I would argue that most businesses do not want to predatorily extract money from unwilling customers

I find it difficult to agree with this – and I'm not just being scattergun cynical. I quite literally think that the vast majority of consumer-facing businesses work as hard as they can to juice more money out of their customers through obfuscation.

It's easy to argue that this is a benefit for developers, or open ecosystems, or just plain principles or whatever, because that's all almost certainly true. But it's also probably virtually certainly no better for users.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#65

Post by threeseed »

cletus wrote: post #33

This is smart and what Apple should've done. Apple is clearly beholden to the massive cash cow that the App Store has become. Apple's attempts at complying with various orders are that their cut should be 27% and the payment processor can have 3%. That's ridiculous and is going to get them into trouble. You see this pattern repeatedly and people will bring up things like the Pareto Principle or argue it's better to s…

App Store is 15% for developers making up $1 million a year.

And I know you think this is somehow unique to Apple but it isn't. Channel costs have existed probably for centuries and are present in every industry.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#66

Post by olau »

nerdjon wrote: post #45

As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…

I know that a consumptionist attitude is popular these days, but as a user of something like Spotify I would surely prefer as much as possible of my monetary contribution ending up with Spotify and the musicians instead of in the hands of a company controlling the market place.

To the people who think the exorbitant fees are okay: Imagine a world with no cash. Now the payment card companies decide they want 30% of all transactions. You think that would be reasonable?

The only reason the phone OS companies get away with it is lack of real competition. The regulatory environment is very slow in catching up - it's not more than a few years ago that the EU finally hit the payment card companies.

And yes, the EU also has something to say when it comes to dark subscription cancelling patterns.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#67

Post by shkkmo »

nerdjon wrote: post #45

As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…

Perhaps you might want your spotify account be able to operate independantly from google? I see similarities to google SSO. For some people, being able not remember more credentials is worth giving google more power over your life, for others google SSO is a non-starter and the would much rather make a seperate account with different credentials.

Some people would rather use single use virtual credut card numbers than rely on google to let them cancel when and how they want.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#68

Post by threeseed »

echelon wrote: post #46
orangepanda wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the opportunity for developers? An opportunity to make unsubscribing a more engaging activity

It's the opportunity to take more of your revenue as margin, plain and simple. Contrary to your suggestion, I would argue that most businesses do not want to predatorily extract money from unwilling customers. It's typically the old, calcified businesses that do not innovate (gyms, cable companies, etc.) that engage in this behavior. I want more margin so I can hire more engineers and change the world faster. Google…

> I would argue that most businesses do not want to predatorily extract money from unwilling customers

Doesn't matter. There are enough of them to cause headaches for many people on a regular basis.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#69

Post by babypuncher »

nerdjon wrote: post #50
curiousgal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. Paypal

Any optional third party option is not a solution. As long as it is a choice for the developer, it doesn't fix the issue. The only reason Apple (and I assume Google) are able to make it this easy is because the app developers are forced to allow it. But if they are no longer forced, why would an app developer choose make it easy to cancel?

Apple could make easy in-app service cancellation a requirement for store approval.

This does not solve the problem of users needing to provide their CC info to additional payment providers, but it at least solves the problem of dark patterns being used to keep users from unsubscribing.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#70

Post by altairprime »

olau wrote: post #66
nerdjon wrote: post #45

As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…

I know that a consumptionist attitude is popular these days, but as a user of something like Spotify I would surely prefer as much as possible of my monetary contribution ending up with Spotify and the musicians instead of in the hands of a company controlling the market place. To the people who think the exorbitant fees are okay: Imagine a world with no cash. Now the payment card companies decide they want 30% of al…

I would trust Spotify but not NYTimes, in this model, so perhaps consider a more hostile example than Spotify as well.
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