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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#61

Post by chockchocschoir »

CyanDeparture wrote: post #29
Epiphany21 wrote: post #5

Recently (within the last two years) I had to help someone suffering with alcoholism/DTS and I was horrified by the abysmal outpatient support the medical system here provides. If he didn't have health insurance and a ride I would not have been able to convince him to go, and he could have died. It's very hard to argue with his contempt for hospitals and doctors when all they do is give you an overpriced potassium IV…

A potassium IV should not be painful in the sligtest, it should just be a tiny pin prick when it's going in. Something went wrong if that was hurting.

Strange, where is the sources backing up that it should always be painless? Found lots of resources pointing towards that many do in fact feel a burning sensation from potassium IV:

- https://cms.galenos.com.tr/Uploads/Article_21792/EAJEM-16-14...

- https://www.webmd.com/drugs/drugreview-6224-potassium-chlori...

- https://www.nyspana.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/NYSPANA-P...

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730072/

- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3063479/

- https://musculardystrophynews.com/forums/forums/topic/17193/

- https://www.nursingcenter.com/journalarticle?Article_ID=3535...

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#62

Post by tyingq »

ejb999 wrote: post #20
Epiphany21 wrote: post #5

Recently (within the last two years) I had to help someone suffering with alcoholism/DTS and I was horrified by the abysmal outpatient support the medical system here provides. If he didn't have health insurance and a ride I would not have been able to convince him to go, and he could have died. It's very hard to argue with his contempt for hospitals and doctors when all they do is give you an overpriced potassium IV…

>>then push you out the door and tell you to find an AA group. What is it exactly you want the hospital to do if your friend won't stop drinking?

Your comment illustrates a large part of the problem. If society believes addiction is mostly a willpower problem, then effective services to help address it won't exist.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#63

Post by tejohnso »

dataengineer56 wrote: post #46

I find it interesting how otherwise smart people rationalise drinking alcohol because "everyone else does it". My life was completely changed by Allen Carr's Easyway To Stop Drinking (available in audio books, hardback, Kindle etc). The author basically takes every reason people give for drinking and logically destroys it, often proving that the exact opposite is true. There's also an interesting BBC documentary by A…

> rationalise drinking alcohol because "everyone else does it".

I don't think most smart people rationalize it at all. They just do it without a care. I drink a few beers once in a while and I don't have any concern doing that.

I also eat completely harmful sugary treats once in a while.

Heck, I even risk my life driving on roads at high (legal) speed once in a while just for fun. We call it a road trip.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#64

Post by yosito »

chockchocschoir wrote: post #53
dataengineer56 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?

It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compare…

> It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking.

I agree with you that the book might not be right for you if you don't want to stop. On the other hand, I didn't think I wanted to stop drinking, until I did want to stop, and then suddenly I wished I hadn't spent the last 10 years drinking. It ultimately didn't enhance my life at all. But I wouldn't have heard that message until I was ready.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#65

Post by giantg2 »

stef25 wrote: post #26

Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedb…

"And IMHO if you weren't at home with toddlers you didn't experience true suffering."

Hahaha that's just life (laughing at the statement, not the situation). For the past few years, most days I get off of work and immediately have to start watching the kid for several hours while my wife works. Of course they're too young to do (safely watch) many of the chores or projects I have to do (mechanic work, handyman work, mow the lawn, etc). I get one day a week "off" to do all those chores and projects, although it's not unusual for part of that day or one or two of those days per month to require me to watch the kid too. I haven't gone fishing or participated in certain hobbies since the kid was born.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#66

Post by throwaway0x7E6 »

rajamaka wrote: post #50
darthrupert wrote: post #36

I'm more and more convinced that people who don't have kids should have double the tax burden compared to parents, at least for the first 5-10 years. The stress is unimaginable, and then some people have the gall to complain when parents try to do it well. Appalling behaviour. I would not tolerate such complaints as a manager, but thankfully I have never met such attitude in my life.

Quoted post unavailable.

sure, but then we will also halt mass immigration that's being allowed for the sake of making up for our already very negative population growth, right?

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#67

Post by [deleted] »

dataengineer56 wrote: post #49
chockchocschoir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So I both drink and smoke because I enjoy it and life is too short to not do things you enjoy (applicable to all things in life), even if it shortens my life-span by some years give or take. What is the logical evidence proving that I actually don't enjoy it?

I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?

[deleted]

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#68

Post by dataengineer56 »

chockchocschoir wrote: post #58
dataengineer56 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.

I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book h…

I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink.

To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give:

- Do you enjoy the taste?

    - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body says "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much".
- Do you think it helps you relax?

    - Alcohol dulls your senses. I'd consider relaxing to be a sensation, and so in this respect it can't help you relax. On a deeper level, generally to relax you need to fix the thing that would stop you from relaxing - you have a headache and you take aspirin. Alcohol is not the solution to any stressor.
- Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?

    - Think about children at a party. They turn up very shy and within 30 mins are bouncing off the walls. No alcohol needed. Adults are the same. And we all have multiple memories of social events that have been ruined by alcohol.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#69

Post by Cloudef »

chockchocschoir wrote: post #47
dataengineer56 wrote: post #46

I find it interesting how otherwise smart people rationalise drinking alcohol because "everyone else does it". My life was completely changed by Allen Carr's Easyway To Stop Drinking (available in audio books, hardback, Kindle etc). The author basically takes every reason people give for drinking and logically destroys it, often proving that the exact opposite is true. There's also an interesting BBC documentary by A…

Interesting. So I both drink and smoke because I enjoy it and life is too short to not do things you enjoy (applicable to all things in life), even if it shortens my life-span by some years give or take. What is the logical evidence proving that I actually don't enjoy it?

Sadly life isnt logical. Some people cant open up at all without alcohol. Alcohol may be their only way to connect with people. It can help them relax as it relives stress, some enjoy that it breaks the ice on social situations etc.. Human isnt logical being.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#70

Post by dataengineer56 »

Cloudef wrote: post #69
chockchocschoir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So I both drink and smoke because I enjoy it and life is too short to not do things you enjoy (applicable to all things in life), even if it shortens my life-span by some years give or take. What is the logical evidence proving that I actually don't enjoy it?

Sadly life isnt logical. Some people cant open up at all without alcohol. Alcohol may be their only way to connect with people. It can help them relax as it relives stress, some enjoy that it breaks the ice on social situations etc.. Human isnt logical being.

These are all misconceptions that the book addresses. Alcohol does not relieve stress, it deadens senses. To combat stress you need to solve the problem that is causing your stress.

Alcohol does not improve confidence, it reduces inhibitions. Inhibitions are essential for being rational and making good decisions. See: people who have a drink and then injure themselves or get into fights.

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